Final table of CC Freeroll NLHE: AJ with A on the board

[NoWuckingFurries]

Full Tilt, 1,000/2,000 blinds, 250 ante NL Hold'em Tourney, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

pifan2004: 55,110 (27.6 bb)
NoWuckinFurries: 50,880 (25.4 bb)
phillyphilly: 28,422 (14.2 bb)
DawgEm: 35,835 (17.9 bb)
Jokish123: 31,537 (15.8 bb)
chapeltuno: 11,216 (5.6 bb)

Pre-Flop: NoWuckinFurries is MP1 with A

J

chapeltuno folds, pifan2004 raises to 6,000, NoWuckinFurries calls 6,000, 2 folds, Jokish123 calls 4,000

Flop: (20,500) 5

9

A

(3 players)
Jokish123 checks, pifan2004 bets 16,000

Final table of the CC freeroll, pifan and I are the biggest stacks at the table.

1) Should I have called pre-flop?

2) What should I do next?

 

[Makwa]

1) Yes call PF

2) You dont want a battle with the big stack, and there is one person to act behind, and a call on the flop gets you almost pot committed. If it were HU with a smaller stack I might raise; as it stands you might or might not be in serious trouble for your whole stack. Not an easy fold, but perhaps a good one.

 

[Xaras23]

the call pf is good! i think you shoul call, you have top pair with a good kiker! only a AQ or a AK can beat you! or maybe your oponent have a set on the flop, but if he had a set he dont made that bet and try the slow play!

 

[Juniorsdaddy]

I agree. You definitely should call pre-flop.

As for the flop, your options are raise or fold. I would probably lean towards folding. The AJ might be good, but you are in a terrible position with another yet to act after you. One has you covered, and the other would cripple you. Unless you have a great read, this hand can be let go.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

OK this is the screeny that I intended to attach to the first post, and forgot!

 

[baudib1]

This is a fold preflop.

For those advocating a fold on this flop, you should TURBO fold preflop.

 

[tenbob]

Fold preflop. (Gold star if you know why)

Call flop, fold turn if he continues to lead, bet if he checks.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

why are so many people advocating getting into a raised pot with a marginal hand against the one person at the table who can bust us? this is a pretty standard fold pf - yes we're in position but there are a few people still to act after us who have perfect stack sizes for a squeezeshove too, which we clearly wouldn't be able to call.

as played call flop and re-evaluate on the turn i guess but you've played yourself into an awkward spot.

 

[dj11]

I agree with TB and Dorkus to an extent. The difference here is that you probably know Pifan. He is no whimp, and the c-bet is standard and intended to paralyse you here. Whether or not he has an ace is immaterial.

He made the first move at a critical time, and under that circumstance your AJ is marginal. Had he limped or folded pf you jam, obviously, but he didn't and you are wanting to apply the 'Gap' concept. Meaning you need a bigger hand to call than to open. This highly suggests you muck PF.

Assuming you had been sitting with Pifan for a while only you can tell what was beneath his play here, but once you hit the ace, IMO, you need to turn the tables with a reraise. Knowing Pifan, he won't be shy about 4 betting you here if he has any ace. Big pairs no longer worry you here, it is the A-rag that is of more concern.

But like Qhris says, why contend here? If you don't contend for this pot you are sitting fine, if you do contend you are putting your tourney life at stake.

Some ICM strategies come into play here. Along with some common sence strategies. Pifans raise will put the pressure on the blinds, who will probably fold unless they are total donks (not likely as they got this far in a CC event), or they really have a hand.

So, I think the best action once you called PF, and hit, is a reraise to Pifans C-bet, say to 15K (2.5x) and then a willingness to drop the effort if he fires back all in.


And, why is it you don't have a tracker with a HUD?

 

[tenbob]

DJ we cannot raise the c-bet and get away from the hand, but you nailed the reasoning for it. Calling achieves the same thing, because the vast majority of the time he gives up without a big ace, and fires again with one.

 

[DogzBestFrnd]

PF I think either lay it down and let him work the smaller stacks, or re-raise PF. Then you have already shown agression when he bets the flop to go over the top, if he calls the PF re-raise that is.

With the call PF and his bet on the flop I think fold and let him take out the shorter stack.
But from the picture you posted it looks like you called the flop and Jokish folded. Now that 3d has to make you wonder if his Ace and his kicker are dimonds. If so he just grabbed a few more outs for the river. If he bets you almost have to lay down now.

 

[Pothole]

As said previously, you have to know Pifan here. I see from the screenshot that you called the cbet as the turn card has appeared and the other 2 callers have folded. IMO a call post flop is a bad play as you have no idea where you stand. All your beating is A 10 and a much wiser move which would have given better information would have been to re-reaise pre flop, if Pi had re-raised or pushed it's pretty obvious my AJ is toast, a much easier way to let the hand go than to call the $16000 cbet post flop and basically pot commit yourself. I suspect Pi went all in after the turn ?

 

[vpb0i]

id ship here imo, in this case, he probably got Ks or Qs tryin to make it look like a strong AK, but its either u fold or u shipped, id shipped here, wah was the outcome/

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

Just one more question here before I move on to reveal the outcome, and it's probably a real n00b question.

When I get to the very late stages of some tournaments, I quite often see people putting comments in chat along the lines of "at this stage of the tournament, people just play any two cards", and its obvious when hands are revealed that people are playing virtually anything in the top 50% of hands.

However people here in this thread are urging discretion.

Can I assume that the tournaments where people are playing ATC at the final table are tournaments with blind / ante structures whereby at the final table you are effectively forced into that situation, and that the CC tournament we are discussing here has not reached that stage (and possibly never will) :questionm

 

[StormRaven]

why are so many people advocating getting into a raised pot with a marginal hand against the one person at the table who can bust us? this is a pretty standard fold pf - yes we're in position but there are a few people still to act after us who have perfect stack sizes for a squeezeshove too, which we clearly wouldn't be able to call.

as played call flop and re-evaluate on the turn i guess but you've played yourself into an awkward spot.

I concur. By making the call with a marginal hand against the chip leader you've forced yourself to make tough decisions that can lead to mistakes and loss of your chips. Your AJ is os and your kicker isn't all that good. Without a miracle flop of JJx or even AJ or KQ10 rainbow you are forced to make tough decisions and possible mistakes.

When I get to the very late stages of some tournaments, I quite often see people putting comments in chat along the lines of "at this stage of the tournament, people just play any two cards", and its obvious when hands are revealed that people are playing virtually anything in the top 50% of hands.

In freerolls this is mostly true. In cash mtt's with short stacks this is mostly true. Short stacks have to pick a spot with hands that aren't premium and hope to double up before being blinded out because they don't have time to wait for a premium hand. You have a great chip stack and don't need to take risks with a marginal hand against the chip leader. You should use a hand like AJ os to try and pick on the short stacks in their blinds when you are in late position. Not when chip leader is in the pot and especially when he raises.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

Well this was the outcome of the hand:

Full Tilt, 1,000/2,000 blinds, 250 ante NL Hold'em Tourney, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

pifan2004: 55,110 (27.6 bb)
NoWuckinFurries: 50,880 (25.4 bb)
phillyphilly: 28,422 (14.2 bb)
DawgEm: 35,835 (17.9 bb)
Jokish123: 31,537 (15.8 bb)
chapeltuno: 11,216 (5.6 bb)

Pre-Flop: NoWuckinFurries is MP1 with A

J

chapeltuno folds, pifan2004 raises to 6,000, NoWuckinFurries calls 6,000, 2 folds, Jokish123 calls 4,000

Flop: (20,500) 5

9

A

(3 players)
Jokish123 checks, pifan2004 bets 16,000, NoWuckinFurries calls 16,000, Jokish123 folds

Turn: (52,500) 3

(2 players)
pifan2004 checks, NoWuckinFurries bets 20,000, pifan2004 folds

Results: 52,500 pot
NoWuckinFurries mucked A

J

(a pair of Aces) and won 52,500 (30,250 net)

Guess I was lucky that Pifan only had A 10

 

[kcirjr]

I dont mind the call... i think he has kk or qq if he has aq or ak i think u have reall bad luck. I def dont thnk though he has ak or aq i think ur hand is good and think he has kk or qq mayb jj

 

[Pothole]

Guess I was right, pifan was holding the A 10

 

[DogzBestFrnd]

"at this stage of the tournament, people just play any two cards"

I think thats more for the shorter stacks. But they might also be refering to when the players are down to 4 or below, just because you get to the blinds faster you have to open your range of hands some.

Looks like you where right about your read on this hand.

 

[AUPhoenix]

Why call preflop with position on the guy? Why would you not raise 1 big blind?

 

[Juniorsdaddy]

I am curious. I noticed a lot of people said to fold the hand because they do not want to get involved with a big stack. But I ask, why not?

I am not saying playing some garbage and getting lucky, but a hand like this I would consider an optimal situation against a big stack. With a larger stack, I find that I am a little more likely to raise with lesser hands in hopes of stealing blinds and getting fewer callers. With a good starting hand hitting on the flop, I would take this as an opportunity to really make headway.

But, you still need to know where you stand after that flop, since there are a few hands that could still beat you. I would feel more confident if that card was a J as opposed to an A. Yes, I know statisically you would be in worse shape.

I think he played the hand perfectly in that situation.