Don't BLUFF into a dry side pot

[aliengenius]

1. You will probably get a free look at the river w your draw.
2. Even though you don't want "me" to win, you don't want the all in guy to win either. YOU want to win, and betting here doesn't help your cause, as you will get called or raised by hands that beat yours.
3. Lame platitudes like "It's not a team sport" without context don't account for basic tournament strategy. You profit real $+ev every time someone is knocked out, especially in a small tournament like this.
4. Please note that betting here with the flush or the king is NOT the same thing as betting without a made hand into a dry side pot.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

[x] big picture
[ ] real HH
[x] ugliest coloured chat i think i've ever seen
[x] bodog sucks

edit: [x] grudge match HU for rollz gogo

 

[Debi]

Thanks AG - I appreciate the lesson. (not being sarcastic - sincere). However it won't help me much since it was one I was already taught a while back.

(Though not sure why you included the 3rd point - unless that was for someone else.)

The problem for me is that though sometimes I will remember that when I am in that position - a lot of times I won't. My brain is defective in that way.

But you never know - a few of the things Tenbob taught me stuck cause he said it to me so many times. Maybe I just need to hear this one 50 or 100 more times to make it stick.

Meanwhile you guys have to bear with me because I love to play even if I am not good at it. I mostly only play CC games - if I was playing to win money I would be sorely disappointed lol.

The good news for all of you is that I don't win too often - so overall you make money off of my mistakes.

 

[aliengenius]

Didn't mean for this to seem solely directed at you personally daks-- you happen to be the 'villan' here, but my "you" in the above statements is a general one. (Now, let's talk about limping utg w AQ, and the actual size of your post flop bet...)

Third point was in regards to the comments that BMF made: totally irrelevant to the situation. Poker ISN'T a team sport, I agree. But that doesn't make betting here a good idea.

Again, it's not as if you are protecting your hand, or hoping to extract more money with a monster. Betting in both those situations makes perfect sense.

 

[Debi]

So I would only bet here if I had a made hand - either bet enough to make you fold and protect it, or bet smaller, but the most I think I can get you to call with to get more money in the pot.

So maybe I will learn something here cause before I would have thought that in that situation I would never bet no matter what. (of course whether or not I apply that lesson depends on my state of mind lol. If I have just gotten home from work like yesterday there is little chance I will be able to apply more than just the basic skills because my brain will be too full and I can't think fast enough.) The trick for me is to find a way to make this basic to my brain.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

this is all well and good but where the heck is my HU grudge match?

 

[KenFischer]

You should be betting on the river, but only with the absolute nuts*. Otherwise, checking it down has the best +EV (not necessarily for the hand, but for the tournament) in nearly every case.

* Side note for my anonymous opponent from last night - having a straight with 3 of the same suit on the board is not the nuts - what *I* had was the nuts

 

[Debi]

this is all well and good but where the heck is my HU grudge match?

Hopefully you are talking to AG.

 

[Effexor]

HU4ROLLZ !


HU4ROLLZ!!!!


and announce it prior so we can make prop bets

Saturday evening good for you both?

 

[Dank Hugh]

thanks for the great info.
always was a little fuzzy on this topic before.
every bit helps.

Dank Hugh

 

[zachvac]

Even without the $ev, which I disagree with in some circumstances, there's no point to bluffing into a dry side pot.

First let's assume there is no money, just chips all of the same value, a cash game if you will. The only times this is profitable is:

1. When you have the best hand and want to get value/chase out draws
2. You think the all-in could be really weak (ie you're ahead of his range) but think you're probably behind the other player in the pot. This almost never happens, but if it did, it would be the one acceptable time to bluff into a dry side pot simply for winning the main pot

Let's look at it closer. I'll use this example.

You've got one all-in, you're A high is probably behind, and you can't fold them both out. If you bluff AG out here you get exactly 0 chips. You now still have to beat the all-in to win any chips at all. You risked chips for little to no value. Especially in this case, you don't want to chase out the flush draw, since you have the nut draw. If you do bet here, you've now given AG an incentive to bluff at it if he gets a read on you (a correct read I may add). What happens if he knows what you're doing and re-raises you? Can you really call this? His bluff has then become profitable because he gets the chips you put in and gets to see showdown with the AI.

So by betting you allow worse hands to bluff you out while getting calls from hands that beat you and folds from other hands and you still have to beat the all-in to win any chips. A bluff (includes semi-bluffs) only works when there are chips in the pot to win. If you bluff into an empty pot, when the bluff works woohoo, you won... 0 chips. When you lose you lose whatever you bet. Understand the theory here?

And back to the top, it is not necessarily +$ev to eliminate shortstacks, especially if you are a big stack and want to steal from the medium stacks playing conservatively because of the money jump for when the shortstack is eliminated.