Dangerously short stacked, seen cheap flop and hit top pair bad kicker

[pat3392]

pokerstars Game 18 person turbo sit&go, top 4 get paid, hero is Maxwell Hall$1.50+$0.25 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: christi480 (5970 in chips)
Seat 2: MissBadaBing (5015 in chips)
Seat 3: tonny-trips (4210 in chips)
Seat 4: Zimzlim (1215 in chips)
Seat 5: baliteke (1385 in chips)
Seat 6: piteu_21 (4075 in chips)
Seat 7: Yakow82 (3025 in chips)
Seat 8: Lucki Actor (1005 in chips)
Seat 9: Maxwell Hall (1100 in chips)
Maxwell Hall: posts small blind 75
christi480: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Maxwell Hall [Tc 8c]
MissBadaBing: folds
tonny-trips: calls 150
Zimzlim: folds
baliteke: folds
piteu_21: folds
Yakow82: calls 150
Lucki Actor: folds
Maxwell Hall: calls 75
christi480: checks
*** FLOP *** [2s Td 4s]
Maxwell Hall: bets 450
christi480: folds
tonny-trips: folds
Yakow82: raises 600 to 1050
Maxwell Hall: calls 500 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (100) returned to Yakow82
*** TURN *** [2s Td 4s] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [2s Td 4s 3c] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***


I raised it pot because I didn't want some one to hit a card on the river; I was going to go all-in but I reasoned that if I was bet the opponent would call anyone; I wouldn't be able to put him of the best hand, and if I went 450 they might try to bluff me or think there flush/two overcards are good. So, I was prepared to call a shove; maybe not a winning move but I'll let you guys give your opinion so I don't influence your say too much

 

[thepokerkid123]

Shove pre-flop.

You're flipping with AK etc, you're only rarely running into an overpair (one that someone was trying to limp-raise), there is 3.5bb in the pot and you've got 7bb in your stack.

I couldn't get my chips in fast enough here.

 

[WiZZiM]

Shove pre-flop.

You're flipping with AK etc, you're only rarely running into an overpair (one that someone was trying to limp-raise), there is 3.5bb in the pot and you've got 7bb in your stack.

I couldn't get my chips in fast enough here.

?? they would have to fold out a fair chunk of Ax type hands to make shoving here good.. checking is standard, and id be happy to get it in postflop. and after you make the 450 bet, you really cant fold anymore..

 

[WiZZiM]

Hang on, sorry, thought you were the BB, forget what i said above.. FOLD preflop, 75 is too much of your stack to call with a hand such as that... completing the SB there is a long term spew of chips...

 

[thepokerkid123]

I just see desperately short stack, opponents showing weakness and a pot that's half of our stack with a hand that is flipping almost always.

Don't get me wrong, I think you're probably right because I suck at these decisions, I'm just wondering why I'm wrong.

 

[WiZZiM]

well, folding would be the best play i think, shoving probably the second best, its not horrible, but at this level, whilst they do fold a lot, they still call a fair chunk of their range also.

if you had some sort of read that one or both will limp/fold to a shove often, then sure, but otherwise, were actually not super desperate, we arnt in good shape, sure, but we have enough to work with, id prefer finding a spot to shove in the next few hands...

 

[tomh7795]

I think shoving is by far the wrong play. We still have 7 bb which we can shove on the btn. We're still in decent shape. I don't get how shoving is even close to a good move. How are we flipping with ak here?? Just fold here and move on to the next hand. Standard fold!

 

[Pascal-lf]

If the limpers are weak/passive players, I'd shove for value

 

[playerk7]

slow play it, what do you have to lose, if they hit you were dangerously short stacked any way, youll probably get 4 or 5 callers anyway so you might as well try to get your moneys worth

 

[pat3392]

I don't like shoving here, they call lightly at these limits and as another poster said, I can shove the button. As for folding, I'm really not sure if folding is the best play, because the extra 75 chips won't give me any more fold equity and won't make that much of a difference if I push and hold up; however, as I'm writing this I'm having doubts; opinions anyone?

 

[WiZZiM]

make that same play 1000 times and tell me if you think calling 75 chips here is a winning, or losing play? guaranteed you will be losing money by calling off here.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

I stopped reading at $1.50+$0.25

That kind of rake is ridiculous, especially for a turbo. Don't play at pokerstars if you want to play super micro stakes.

 

[tenbob]

Agreed that rake is way to high.

Fold that hand pre-flop, shoving pre is probably a little better than calling. Shove on the flop.

 

[WiZZiM]

I stopped reading at $1.50+$0.25

That kind of rake is ridiculous, especially for a turbo. Don't play at pokerstars if you want to play super micro stakes.

Agreed that rake is way to high.

Fold that hand pre-flop, shoving pre is probably a little better than calling. Shove on the flop.

it's "ok" if your not planning on playing them long term... i mean, as a player who's learning, it's not overly bad to play these games short term. But you need to understand that the rake is unbeatable in the long run, even by very good players.

 

[c9h13no3]

But you need to understand that the rake is unbeatable in the long run, even by very good players.

That rake is quite beatable because your opponents suck so bad. However, why try to beat the huge rake when you can play on another site where you don't have to?

 

[pat3392]

Yeah, thanks for the heads up about the rake, I'll start paying attention to that

Ok then, so if T8 suited here is a fold how many chips would I have to have to play it(playing it as a gapped suited connector) What would be a minimum limping range here, if limping here at all is OK

 

[tomh7795]

Its not that bad with rakeback. Rakeback is extremely important for low limit sngs

 

[Pascal-lf]

You're asking when you should limp with a low gap-suited connector hand in the worst position on the table in a tournament?

I think that should answer itself

 

[tomh7795]

You're asking when you should limp with a low gap-suited connector hand in the worst position on the table in a tournament?

I think that should answer itself

Is 108 a low sc? I would say it's a mid 1 gabber. Just a simple fold here. Preserve your chips so you can shove btn next hand. 7bb is not the end of the world trust me

 

[WiZZiM]

Yeah, thanks for the heads up about the rake, I'll start paying attention to that

Ok then, so if T8 suited here is a fold how many chips would I have to have to play it(playing it as a gapped suited connector) What would be a minimum limping range here, if limping here at all is OK

probably the only time it can be ok to complete or limp with SC is very early on when your 50-75 bb's deep. say on a 9 ppl sng, your in the sb with the same 10 8 s, and 6 people limp in beofre you. sure, call 10 chips in the hopes of hitting a decent flop and look for the early double up.

basically though, when your thinking about limping with them, you need to have a lot of bad players in the pot with you to make limping worth while, like when the flop comes 10 10 Q and they are willing to stack off with a single queen, or if the flop is 8 8 A and they stack of with Ace rag etc.

 

[pat3392]

probably the only time it can be ok to complete or limp with SC is very early on when your 50-75 bb's deep. say on a 9 ppl sng, your in the sb with the same 10 8 s, and 6 people limp in beofre you. sure, call 10 chips in the hopes of hitting a decent flop and look for the early double up.

basically though, when your thinking about limping with them, you need to have a lot of bad players in the pot with you to make limping worth while, like when the flop comes 10 10 Q and they are willing to stack off with a single queen, or if the flop is 8 8 A and they stack of with Ace rag etc.

Woah, really that tight? If I had that hand when me and my opponents had 50BB-75BB I'd call from the small blind if 3 players limped, assuming the big blind isn't aggressive; about half of the players at these limits are quite awful and would play there Q on a TTQ board because after all, there's a less chance their opponents have a T because there's already 2 out there; I usually slow-play till the turn then take my opponents to value town in this scenario and can potentially make a lot of chips. So, do you guys think I'm being too loose calling with 3 limped players?

Do you guys know of any guides/articles/books that explains the optimal way of playing the small blind?

 

[Pascal-lf]

You'll flop trips just over 1% of the time when you hold just one of the cards in your hand.

Your complete costs 1/2 a big blind, which at these early levels is going to be 50/75/100 or so. Everyone is sitting with 3k. In 100 hands, you'll pay somewhere between 5k and 10k completing the small blinds with your weak hands, and you'll hit your trips once to win around 3k (provided a) they hit a pair and b) you manage to get it all in the middle).

Doesn't seem profitable to me?