Call or fold?

J

joeeagles

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This hand happened a few days ago and I've been kind of reluctant to post it because I gave the answer for granted, but I've been thinking about it and there are some considerations that perhaps can be made and are starting to make me think its not as easy as I first thought. Here it goes, sorry for the format I'll try to make it clear.

The tourney is on PS, $10+$1, 180 seat, 3 players left, blinds are 1000/2000, Ante 100. Seat 3 is the button.

Seat 1: hero (~47000) is the SB
Seat 2: villain1 (~160000) is the BB
Seat 3: villain2 (~63000) is the button

Dealt to hero (8c7c)
villain2 : calls 2000
hero : calls 1000
villain1 :checks

This limp is suspicious because all 3 of us have been active stealing blinds, this is the 2nd level we've been going at it and there haven't been many (if any at all, can't be sure) button limps, its been just about exclusively button raises or folds, with the SB limping sometimes on button fold. It could mean something or it couldn't, I called wanting to see the flop, hoping villain1 doesn't raise, and he didn't. 2 hands before I lost a ~60k pot to big stack for being a bonehead on a Q high board, I had second pair with AT and didn't believe he had a Q. I had raised PF on the botton, he called with Q9 and hit, and I called him down, so now I'm the shortstack.


Flop: 9cAd6c

So I flop a straight flush draw. I'm the SB and I'm first to act. Pot is 6300. I decide quickly to go for a check/shove, because I know one of them will take a stab so I'm trying to get more in there instead of instashoving and taking only the 6k.

Hero checks
villain1 checks
villain2 bets ~61000 and is all in

I was very surprised by this and didn't expect it at all. He has me covered and first-in vigorish. I used up the whole clock before deciding because I just couldn't figure with what hand he would do this. Did he limp with AA? The shove wouldn't make sense. Maybe a set of 9s or 6s hoping one of us had an A? Still not sure that makes sense. Is he worried about a flush draw? I concluded there was a strong chance he had a weak Ac suited, but wasn't totally sold on it because I just know he would have raised PF with it from the button. So maybe a hand like Jc3c? In conclusion, there is no way to know how many outs you have. I'll tell you what I did after getting some opinions. Call off your stack or fold? In case you're wondering the payout structure is as follows:

1st place: $540
2nd place: $360
3rd place: $214
 
stormswa

stormswa

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id like to bring up a hand during wsop.


Paul Wasika...... remember......remember?


Im fine calling here, beyond fine. If he has overpair you are like 50/50 or so and if he has set you still are not that far behind. If you win this you will have masive chip advantage going into HU play.

Like you said he could have anything here Ax. I dont think he has a draw here though, there is no reason to do this with a draw, I put him on some kind of hand that he was slowplaying preflop or connected with on flop. There is no reason to do this witout a made hand, he could of just checked thru if he had some soft of draw. He either has total air and just dosent think anyone can call this or he connected some weak way and is scared. If he has draw and did this I will be beyond suprised.
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

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I think this is an easy call. I remember when Wasika's hand was first shown. I couldn't believe he folded. Obviously playing it safe rather than trying to win.

If he had of called we might have had a worthy WSOP champ.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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I think this is an easy call. I remember when Wasika's hand was first shown. I couldn't believe he folded. Obviously playing it safe rather than trying to win.

If he had of called we might have had a worthy WSOP champ.

I agree 100% , I dont know how he folded that. I have alot of respect for his play also which suprises me more he folded. But that is for another thread.
 
dj11

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3 handed, call.......

My first thought is that he is raising to steal, and has only hot air.
2nd thought is AcXo , 3rd thought is 6X
 
vanquish

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I agree 100% , I dont know how he folded that. I have alot of respect for his play also which suprises me more he folded. But that is for another thread.


He wanted the extra millions that came with 2nd place.
 
vanquish

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Oh, and to OP: I call this for the same reasons posted above.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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He wanted the extra millions that came with 2nd place.


I dont buy it!

You dont play 7 good days of poker and get to 3 handed and then fold when you know you are most likely 50/50 to be even with chip leader. The way Jamie played he could have anything there and you have to believe you are at least a coin flip.

With Jamie's chip stack I take this gamble all the time, 3 handed against that chip stack im not playing for 2nd. I would of been fine with busting out in 3rd in that spot.

Sometimes you need to put the money aside and make the most logical and sound decision's at a game.

im not trying to hijack this thread but this detour might lead to more discussion of why the call is good and stuff. You can actully edit the origional post and take out the payouts they dont matter its about making the most logical decisions not the money.
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

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I dont buy it!

You dont play 7 good days of poker and get to 3 handed and then fold when you know you are most likely 50/50 to be even with chip leader. The way Jamie played he could have anything there and you have to believe you are at least a coin flip.

With Jamie's chip stack I take this gamble all the time, 3 handed against that chip stack im not playing for 2nd. I would of been fine with busting out in 3rd in that spot.

Sometimes you need to put the money aside and make the most logical and sound decision's at a game.

im not trying to hijack this thread but this detour might lead to more discussion of why the call is good and stuff. You can actully edit the origional post and take out the payouts they dont matter its about making the most logical decisions not the money.

Not to mention that Paul had more chips than the other guy at the begining of the hand which means if Gold wins the pot he finishes second anyway.
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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another thread well and truly hijacked lol

i call in a split second u prob 5050 to be back in the race for first
 
Munchrs

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call even if he is on a better flush draw you still have the srtraight to hit if the flush misses, also he might not have a pair giving you additional outs.

Paul played that hand badly, poo to him.
 
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