AKs vs utg 4-bet @ 10/20; $16 turbo STT

[ChuckTs]

No reads on villain as this is very early in the STT.

What overbets this much, and can we call?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1490)
MP3 (t1500)
Hero (t1470)
Button (t1440)
SB (t1520)
BB (t1580)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is CO with

,

.
UTG raises to t60, 4 folds, Hero raises to t180, 3 folds, UTG raises to t1500, Hero...

 

[bw07507]

I think it would be strange for KK/AA to overbet this much, Im guessing he has JJ or QQ. I dont think AQ would do this, so I definately dont think you are dominating him. I would vote for a fold here. You are at best coinflipping. Also, if I have AA in a 3 or 6 dollar turbo, I might do the exact same thing at UTG, knowing that I will get called a lot of the time with garbage.

 

[Shandy]

I call this, personally i think he is holding at best 1010, but very like AJ, AQ, and i think any random hand can turn up here, even KJs. JJ and QQ normally don't play like this, and AA/KK are even less likely. 1010 and below does, if i were a gambling man i would actually say 77/66 or AQ/AJ was his most likely holding, and since it is early with not much time invested i call, although since you are probably multitabling which means that time invested is less important, then maybe a fold could be found.

 

[joeeagles]

I agree with the ranges above, which means its up to you if you want to gamble or not on a likely 50/50, since you're rarely dominated by AA or KK.

Good point made by Shandy, if you're multitabling (knowing you its about 100% safe to assume that) time is less of a factor. Even if its early it doesn't mean call, cause you'll be there anyway.

 

[ChuckTs]

Elaborate on the point about time please; not quite sure what you mean.

 

[Shandy]

When Multitabling your time is taken focusing on 3/4/5/6 tables, as opposed to just the one, so basically you are x (with x being equal to number of tables) times more efficient with your time, so therefore the time spent on any one tournament is less important than if you were focusing on just the one. Now you could say that if you were focusing on just the one that this would be an easy fold as it was more important not to go out as it was the only one you were playing, but if you are just one tabling there is a chance you could go out at any point out of the money, so you may as well take these 50/50 flips (altho i think it is better than that in this case), early on so that you don't have that much wasted time, and can get on a try another one.
Whereas if you are multitabling, you are already on other tables, and the effective time spent on this table is only a fraction (1/x) of your playing time, so you may not consider that even if you have to sit there for another 30 minutes before you get a chance to play a hand that it is much of a hardship.
Hope this clarifies a little- although i think it may actually confuse more than it clarifies, as i have probably contradicted myself with every sentence.
shandy

 

[NineLions]

Similar to the people willing to take a little extra risk early in a tourney in order to build a big stack, or willing to risk a small stack rather than wait around trying to chip up a small stack thinking that if they bust out they'll just start another?

 

[joeeagles]

Multitabling eliminates time as being a factor in your decisions, because there is no benefit in busting since you'll be in front of your computer anyway. To make it more clear, Sklansky in his tournament book talks about players, at times, making decisions for all their chips early in a tourney because they might have a juicy side game they can play if they go busto. So at times they might, for example, call off their chips in an early level in a 50/50 situation so they either double up, which gives them an advantage, or go play the side game, which could turn out to be more +EV than the tourney, since they might bust the day after still out of the money.

Now this example is a little extreme and doesn't really apply to us, but the time factor does because if you bust you can use your time differently (ex. get your ass off your chair and go cut your grass, rather than paying your neighbour's kid $30). Multitabling eliminates this because if you bust you'll be in front of your screen anyway.

A lot of times in threads I see some of us saying "I'll make the call because its early in the tourney". But:

1) if we're multitabling this really never applies

2) it should only be considered in large field MTT's, where the FT is 4/5 hours away at least.

In reality, I don't think we should ever let the time factor influence a decision in a STT, because they really don't last long anyway. I mentioned it but in truth kind of improperly being this was a STT.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm having a bit of trouble in fully understanding Shandy's concept. I believe the basic idea is that if you fold the 50/50 here and end up busting 30 minutes later not cashing, since you're multitabling, the time you dedicated to this table is only a fraction of the time you spent in total. If, instead, you're playing only that STT, every decision would be more valuable because your whole time investment is on this one tourney. Or something like that...feel free to correct it Shandy.