AK w/action on the bubble

[ChuckTs]

We've been playing fairly tag, original raiser is ~20/15/2 (fairly TAG), and pusher is very tight - ~9/8/4. I realize now that I hadn't even noticed his tightness during the game :/ NO MORE BEERS N JOINTS BEFORE POKER K?

pokerstars GAME #10327414994: TOURNAMENT #52325796, $15+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VI (100/200) - 2007/06/08 - 01:13:04 (ET)
Table '52325796 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 3: cwmizner (3780 in chips)
Seat 4: ChuckTs (4300 in chips)
Seat 7: THEL00000000 (3235 in chips)
Seat 9: tercet (2185 in chips)
cwmizner: posts small blind 100
ChuckTs: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Ad Kc]
THEL00000000: raises 200 to 400
tercet: raises 1785 to 2185 and is all-in
cwmizner: folds
ChuckTs: ...

Wait it out and keep stealing blinds or push?

 

[stormswa]

We've been playing fairly tag, original raiser is ~20/15/2 (fairly TAG), and pusher is very tight - ~9/8/4. I realize now that I hadn't even noticed his tightness during the game :/ NO MORE BEERS N JOINTS BEFORE POKER K?

POKERSTARS GAME #10327414994: TOURNAMENT #52325796, $15+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VI (100/200) - 2007/06/08 - 01:13:04 (ET)
Table '52325796 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 3: cwmizner (3780 in chips)
Seat 4: ChuckTs (4300 in chips)
Seat 7: THEL00000000 (3235 in chips)
Seat 9: tercet (2185 in chips)
cwmizner: posts small blind 100
ChuckTs: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Ad Kc]
THEL00000000: raises 200 to 400 Donk raise
tercet: raises 1785 to 2185 and is all-in
cwmizner: folds
ChuckTs: ...

Wait it out and keep stealing blinds or push?

I push this almost every single time here, he has to have a big big big big hand to call this.


think about it what is he mini raising with preflop here? I doubt AA or KK so you are ahead or a flip with him against anything else. And as for all in guy well he either has us dominated or coinflip but im willing to risk it here for 1/2 our stack. Even if we lose we are not out.

 

[pokernut]

This is an interesting hand. The minraise under the gun would have to mean strength from a TAG, I would think he's def calling if you don't push, and might be calling if you do. Although having a chance to knock out two players and go heads up with a commanding lead would be nice, or to isolate. I would have to think that you're racing here at best and might be significantly behind a KK or AA. I think you are at best racing.

You won't be that far behind theloooooooo if he does win the hand. I fold and keep chipping away.

Like i've mentioned in other threads though I am not a good donk n goer to say the least so I could be way off.

 

[ChuckTs]

You don't think the supertag would pull a move here with say AJ+?

 

[pokernut]

If he's pulling a move with AJ+ don't you think he would raise more then the min though? I am reading that as strength. Yes he could def be pulling a move with that range but that's not what I would expect to see. The minraise, especially under the gun from a TAG always throws me way out of wack.

Edit: ahhhhh, you're talking about the supertag that's pushing. Yeah he's not the one i'm real worried about in this situation. I put him on a wider range then the other guy. He could def be making a move with AJ+ being shortstacked on the bubble, he has to make a move soon with an M around 7.

 

[stormswa]

If he's pulling a move with AJ+ don't you think he would raise more then the min though? I am reading that as strength. Yes he could def be pulling a move with that range but that's not what I would expect to see. The minraise, especially under the gun from a TAG always throws me way out of wack.

remember we are 4 handed so the UTG is actually the cutoff.

so his miniraise isn't as strong as you might think, I just dont see him doing this with AA or KK on the bubble.

 

[pokernut]

^^^^

Good point with that. I don't play a lot of sng's and am very inexperienced with sng bubble play. I'm interested to see how it played out.

 

[mrsnake3695]

I do think pushers range includes A-j even down to A-8 as well as almost any 2 face cards and of course any pair. I know he's very tight but he is at about 10 times the BB which also widens his range. You are much more likely to be dominating him than him dominating you.

I would push here and hope first raiser calls which I doubt.

 

[joeeagles]

I fold and let them play this. Minraise followed by shove, I think you're behind in a coinflip very often here. From your stack it seems you're doing well stealing blinds and you lost first in vigorish with your AK. Table is 4-handed making your AK very strong but other villain is likely calling so I'd wait it out and keep doing what you've been doing.

 

[ChuckTs]

Results: I push, minraiser folds, villain's KK holds vs my AK.

 

[stormswa]

Results: I push, minraiser folds, villain's KK holds vs my AK.

still correct in my opinion, like I said the mini raiser is folding there a majority of the time which Im sure you knew or you wouldn't of pushed and the guy that pushed all ins range is very high you just got unlucky he had KK.

 

[mrsnake3695]

Even so, you still have 3 outs, which seems like more considering all the times I've had KK and lost to AX.

 

[stormswa]

lol

Even so, you still have 3 outs, which seems like more considering all the times I've had KK and lost to AX.

you didnt know that when I sit down they add like 10 aces to each deck.....

 

[young hova]

I wouldve pushed and lost too. I wasn't at the table but I'm assuming that the super TAG wouldn't reraise all in with aces or kings to a minimum raise hoping to milk his hand. I still would think if he had aces he wouldve simply reraised the raise rather than an all in reraise. Regardless since he is super TAG its a given that he probably has sometype of pair, in this case I hope its something like queens and if it is kks you still have the ace. This is a good play by the super TAG though.

The only way I could fold here is if i know that super TAG is capable of pushing all in rather than reraising to extract value which is going to be pretty hard if you haven't seen him make a similar play like this.

At the end of the day what sways my decision here is the fact that you have super TAG covered 2x, not really worried about fairly TAG, so at worst you only lose half your stack and still have 10 bbs. If you were farther in the tournament and your whole stack was at risk, than you can make your own decision whether you want to race for your tournament against a made hand.

You could have definitely got away from this hand if you wanted to though because you don't really have anything invested in this pot. Knowing that Super TAG has a pocket pair your basically deciding whether you want to race against it right than and there, essentially if you like to take risks and gamble your going to call, if you want your money in safer than a preflop coinflip with an unmade hand than your going to fold. Most people are going to take that chance with ak here
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