Aces late in tourny

[Chips4Buds]

Ok so were down to 70 out of 1.5k entrants. The blinds are 400/800 and i have 9k chips. I raise to 2.4k and button and big call. Flop is KK8 big checks, i check, button checks. Turn is 4 big checks, i bet 2k button min raises. So im pretty much commited and call he turns over KQ. Should i have shoved pre? Correct my play please. Was fold really an option?

 

[doomasiggy]

Don't 3x when the blinds are this big, and when you're this short you should be open shoving unless you are trying to induce a shove with worse from an opponent who is aggressive enough that they might do that.

 

[detourglr]

when you are short stack (10x BB or under) you are always shoving with AA. Now there is another theory that the stort stack is really at 20X BB and you should shove on that too. My self at the 20X I like to 3X BB Bet my Aces.

 

[doomasiggy]

^you aren't always open shoving AA. You can raise or limp to induce depending on reads. Here it's a shove because we're short enough that players will be calling us light anyway.

 

[Chips4Buds]

^you aren't always open shoving AA. You can raise or limp to induce depending on reads. Here it's a shove because we're short enough that players will be calling us light anyway.

I'm usually desperate for a call or value sometimes u know what i mean. I've shoved multiple times and only picked up the blinds but i get what you guys are saying. I would have lost anyway i'm sure he would of called the all in preflop. Thanks guys for your 2 cents.

 

[doomasiggy]

I'm usually desperate for a call or value sometimes u know what i mean. I've shoved multiple times and only picked up the blinds but i get what you guys are saying. I would have lost anyway i'm sure he would of called the all in preflop. Thanks guys for your 2 cents.

This is why we shove lighter when we're short stacked . Yeah he probably would've called preflop with KQ, which is exactly what we want btw, to get it in pre well ahead of his preflop range. The rest is just variance.

 

[youregoodmate]

Im always shoving here.

 

[Samweis3]

shove is the only way here, i bet he would have folded his KQ

 

[youregoodmate]

shove is the only way here, i bet he would have folded his KQ

We dont want him to. The shove isnt to make him fold more, its because we're so short.

 

[CAMurray]

Ok so were down to 70 out of 1.5k entrants. The blinds are 400/800 and i have 9k chips. I raise to 2.4k and button and big call. Flop is KK8 big checks, i check, button checks. Turn is 4 big checks, i bet 2k button min raises. So im pretty much commited and call he turns over KQ. Should i have shoved pre? Correct my play please. Was fold really an option?

At 5.6M late, AIPF is your only move IMO.

 

[micalupagoo]

shove indeed, you still would have been called and lost, but you got it in good
even as a larger stack later in a tourny it seems some ppl are still willing to call- I shove them more 4-5x bet at min, hate getting aa sucked out

 

[RamdeeBen]

Open shoving is ok, but clearly you have a table full of idiots.

So; I don't mind 2x pre; bet flop/bet turn get it in whenever.

Variance is your friend.

 

[RamdeeBen]

shove is the only way here, i bet he would have folded his KQ

What?

So let me get this straight; we hold AA and you want him to fold out KQ? Or you only saying this because of how this particular hand ran out?

Our objective is for chip gains, not folding out worse hands when we have the best starting hand.

FWIW; if a guy is flatting a 3x raise with KQ from a 10bb stack, then he's bad and he's likely to call of a jam pre flop with K,Q . **Not fold**

Ideally; whichever way we can win the most chips is the best way to play it. Here with 10bb; I don't mind shoving, but I think it's also fine to min raise/call off . Even when called; we're always commited on most flops; we bet/call/bet turn cal it off.

Just varience.

 

[Ronaldadio]

To disguise your hand it has to be a shove.
Without getting technical, u have about 10 bb left. If I was at your table I would be thinking your range could be any Ace, any paint, any pair...possibly even worse.
You probably would have got a call from KQ anyway...exactly what you want. We don't know how many chips KQ person had btw

 

[jordanbillie]

With 11bb just open shove AA

 

[frozensprx]

A shove pre probably would've been better, but regardless, I can't think of any time where i would open with a small stack then fold AA to a paired flop, too much of your stack is invested in this hand, and you are beating a large portion of his range to get aggro late in a tourney with. In conclusion, he had a K this time, but it would be -EV to fold in this spot and more times than not you will be winning this pot.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Open shoving is ok, but clearly you have a table full of idiots.

So; I don't mind 2x pre; bet flop/bet turn get it in whenever.
.

this ^ exactly!
Why are some suggesting hero should always open-shove here when he's got morons on a table who can't see he's raising on a shortstack (of ~10bb)with what would be a real obvious monster to anyone but the dumbest of players.
If they're that stupid to not see it for what it is, by all means raise > shove.
If you've already been shoving, you might want to consider open-shoving so as to not be soooooo obvious (but as already said, if they are clearly that stupid, go ahead & just raise instead of shove instead).

As far as raise sizing goes, why do we want to raise 2x here instead of 3x when there's players dumb enough to call our 3x raise?

 

[Poker Orifice]

To disguise your hand it has to be a shove.
Without getting technical, u have about 10 bb left. If I was at your table I would be thinking your range could be any Ace, any paint, any pair...possibly even worse.
You probably would have got a call from KQ anyway...exactly what you want. We don't know how many chips KQ person had btw

"BUT" he's clearly at a table filled with idiots so why does he need to bother to 'disguise' his hand.

 

[IntenseHeat]

New years morning, playing $500 GTD. I was on the short stack with a little over 12k in chips and blinds 500/1000. Blinds increase to 600/1200 just as the BB came around to me. Two unplayable hands later and I'm down around 10k. This is the point where I began laughing like a maniac as it occurred to me that none of the other players realized that I was about to win this tourney. A few hands later, I pick up A-A.

Now, my image is so tight that as the bubble approached (15 paid), I shoved my way from 5k to 14k without ever getting a call. I was shoving into two and three limpers and still never got action. So here I am now, 12th of 12 players, UTG, holding A-A, with about 8 blinds. There is no question of what to do. I want action, but I don't want these babies cracked. Don't get fancy. Just shove! I got two callers, tripled up, and went on to win the tourney.

 

[CAMurray]

New years morning, playing $500 GTD. I was on the short stack with a little over 12k in chips and blinds 500/1000. Blinds increase to 600/1200 just as the BB came around to me. Two unplayable hands later and I'm down around 10k. This is the point where I began laughing like a maniac as it occurred to me that none of the other players realized that I was about to win this tourney. A few hands later, I pick up A-A.

Now, my image is so tight that as the bubble approached (15 paid), I shoved my way from 5k to 14k without ever getting a call. I was shoving into two and three limpers and still never got action. So here I am now, 12th of 12 players, UTG, holding A-A, with about 8 blinds. There is no question of what to do. I want action, but I don't want these babies cracked. Don't get fancy. Just shove! I got two callers, tripled up, and went on to win the tourney.

Well done!

 

[Ronaldadio]

"BUT" he's clearly at a table filled with idiots so why does he need to bother to 'disguise' his hand.

Possibly. But my point is, if you are open shoving your range is massive. So idiots will call regardless and even clever players holding AK, AQ, KQ, JJ, 1010, etc might call

 

[duggs]

PO is right

 

[doomasiggy]

this ^ exactly!
Why are some suggesting hero should always open-shove here when he's got morons on a table who can't see he's raising on a shortstack (of ~10bb)with what would be a real obvious monster to anyone but the dumbest of players.
If they're that stupid to not see it for what it is, by all means raise > shove.
If you've already been shoving, you might want to consider open-shoving so as to not be soooooo obvious (but as already said, if they are clearly that stupid, go ahead & just raise instead of shove instead).

As far as raise sizing goes, why do we want to raise 2x here instead of 3x when there's players dumb enough to call our 3x raise?

We're shoving because we're short enough that we're always getting called by a ridiculous range of worse hands. Just get it in pre with the nuts imo.

 

[duggs]

We're shoving because we're short enough that we're always getting called by a ridiculous range of worse hands. Just get it in pre with the nuts imo.

we want to keep their range as wide as possible, if this is by min raising then its fine

 

[snklzona]

I know you want more for your AA here but 1200 to the good better than out of
game...