$75 NLHE: TT facing postflop All In 4 Bet from overcaller pre

[Zybomb]

$75 NL HE: TT facing postflop All In 4 Bet from overcaller pre

Avg stack 15k 66 players left 36 get paid

Both preflop (3 bet) and flop (flat) could have been different, but assume as played what's your play here and what's villains range. Villain has just been moved to our table half of an orbit ago and hasn't played a hand yet so no read. We've seen PFR Pot size bet overpairs on 3 occasions so far, so when he halfs it we fully believe our TT is good vs him

full tilt poker Tournament game, buy-in $20000 Guarantee (154295893), T$200.00/T$400.00 No Limit, 8/9 players

SB: T$17275
BB: T$9552
UTG: T$12903
UTG+1: T$24202
MP1: T$9366
HERO (MP2): T$18609
CO: T$19082
Button: T$13596

Players post T$50.00 ante
SB posts Small Blind T$200.00
BB posts Big Blind T$400.00

Pre-flop: T

T

(T$1000)
UTG folds
UTG+1 raises to T$1200
MP1 folds
HERO calls T$1200
CO calls T$1200
Button folds
SB folds
BB folds

Flop: 4

6

4

(T$4600)
UTG+1 bets T$2500
HERO raises to T$6400
CO raises to T$17832 and is all in
UTG+1 folds

 

[tomh7795]

Well he could very likely have an overpair there. He could have ak with a flush draw but he could have 77-AA. flush draw with 2 overs is a favourite over 1010 I don't think your beating his range here so I would fold. I would 3bet preflop and if he reraised your 3bet then I would fold

 

[Zybomb]

Well he could very likely have an overpair there. He could have ak with a flush draw but he could have 77-AA. flush draw with 2 overs is a favourite over 1010 I don't think your beating his range here so I would fold. I would 3bet preflop and if he reraised your 3bet then I would fold

We flip vs overs w a FD. W 1/3 our stack in if this is what he has it's an easy call. PPs are weird here. Like is 77-99 really spewing this hard, or has JJ-AA really overcalled pre?

 

[tomh7795]

Your not flipping with 2 overs at a flush draw. AK is 60% fav. I would fold simply because your not beating his range. You still have a decent stack. I guess calling is okay too becase of the utg raiser. I wouldn't raise the flop though. I would just call and revalute on the turn.

 

[tenbob]

At a glance we only need 30%~ equity here to call. Live players in small buyin MTT's tend to go a little crazy with small over-pairs as well. Add in the odd bluff and flush draws and I think we have it.

Once I raise the flop I think I have to snap the shove.

 

[Zybomb]

Your not flipping with 2 overs at a flush draw. AK is 60% fav. I would fold simply because your not beating his range. .

You're missing an important point, and your % is wrong. Just to make sure I hadn't lost my mind I ran AhKh vs TT with no heart through. TT is a 51.3% to 48.7% favorite on this 6h4h4x board . Additionally you are neglecting the fact that we have 7650 of our initial 17k+ stack already in the middle, making the pot just under 31k and we have to call just under 11k, giving us just under 3:1 on our money.

You do bring up 1 good point of being able to fold with 11k (over 25 BBs) left and still have only a slightly below average stack though

 

[Pascal-lf]

Call the flop and re-ev on the turn. I would put CO on the flush draw with two overs - JJ or higher probably would have been 3 bet.

 

[Zybomb]

Call the flop and re-ev on the turn.

Generally if I've played TT in this fashion (flat pre) this would be my default... however bc I had seen villain pot size bet overpairs on multiple occasions thusfar, I was convinced my TT was surely ahead, so I raised mostly to isolate out potential flush draws from villain behind me, and (to a lesser extent) protect my hand from 6 out overs from PFR

 

[Pascal-lf]

I'd call then.

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

You simply cannot fold, not only have you basically commited yourself but you're ahead a lot of the time aswell.

He could have flush draws, he could have 55-99 easily considering his pre bet was so big it didnt seem like he wanted too much action.

I jam this all day

 

[Zybomb]

He could have flush draws, he could have 55-99 easily considering his pre bet was so big it didnt seem like he wanted too much action.

You might have missed that The 4 bet shove is from a 3rd player, follow a PFR bet and my raise, if that changes anything

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

I did miss that, sory, but i stand by my guns here mate.

You cant fold.

We have started the hand with 18k, and by the flop have put 8k in. You've put 40% of your stack in and therefore cannot fold, as you could easily be ahead and you're putting the other 60% in to win 36-40k.

Just cant fold imo

 

[Poker Orifice]

I did miss that, sory, but i stand by my guns here mate.

You cant fold.

We have started the hand with 18k, and by the flop have put 8k in. You've put 40% of your stack in and therefore cannot fold, as you could easily be ahead and you're putting the other 60% in to win 36-40k.

Just cant fold imo

I don't see how this ^ is a valid reason for putting our stack in?

I grudgingly fold w my 25bb's & wish I'd 3-bet preflop (why didn't we 3-bet preflop?).

 

[Zybomb]

I grudgingly fold w my 25bb's & wish I'd 3-bet preflop (why didn't we 3-bet preflop?).

I certainly have no issue with anyone who'd 3 bet pre, but given that, to answer why we didn't in this spot...

It was a combination of 2 things. First off (as stated) I'd seen PFR Pot Bet overpairs 3 times on the flop, so I was fairly certain he was leaking post by giving info about his hand via his bet amounts (hence post flop should be easy)

More than that though, I think given stack sizes, 3 betting a hand like TT (which is toward the bottom of our VALUE 3 bet range) is just really awkward ... like if we 3 bet to 4600 we we have 14k behind and we're in one of those really wtf spots if PFRer 4 bets bc of our remaining stack size, and flatting avoids this spot.

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

What were the results, and fwiw 1010 is too weak to 3 bet pre, i like flatting, 3 bet and we are committing ourself to getting it in on a flop that really might be just terrible for our hand, for example say pfraiser has AK, hes insta calling a 3 bet pre, the only other play pre is 3 bet shove and i dont agree with that either due to the fact we have a substantial stack and dont need to race with 1010

Results please

 

[Zybomb]

We tank, and eventually put villain on overs with hearts and figure the pot is too big to fold at this point.

Villain flips QQ

We bust.

Didn't think JJ-AA would really be in his range given the fact that he just called after an open and my flat call.... meh weird one. I was annoyed I threw in 40BBs with 1 pair but...it is what it is

 

[Pascal-lf]

What were the results, and fwiw 1010 is too weak to 3 bet pre, i like flatting, 3 bet and we are committing ourself to getting it in on a flop that really might be just terrible for our hand, for example say pfraiser has AK, hes insta calling a 3 bet pre, the only other play pre is 3 bet shove and i dont agree with that either due to the fact we have a substantial stack and dont need to race with 1010

Results please

What's wrong with AK calling a 3-bet pf? If AK misses he's got nothing and we're well in the lead.

 

[Zybomb]

What's wrong with AK calling a 3-bet pf? If AK misses he's got nothing and we're well in the lead.

And if he 4 Bet Shoves preflop then what?

We're in a weird chip stack spot where we'd have about 25% of our stack invested and really don't know how to respond against a shove.

Calling is basically hoping for a race or (less likely) 88-99, folding is safer and annoys us that we didn't just flat but allows us to get bluffed by overs

 

[baudib1]

Call/shove whatevs.

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

i like being right

cocky/arrogant side coming through right there.

SHoving 1010 with our chip stack is completely unecessary

We are basically hoping for a race and are going to get out drawn a lot of the time.

If you are confident in your ability you dont need to flip to win and cn pick a lot better spots than this one when you are almost 100% certain you are gettig it in ahead

 

[baudib1]

results oriented leaks ITT

put villain on a range. do not fold because our equity is "only" 50%.

 

[41W4]

I would fold. He raises all-in, so he could have A-J for a flush draw, bigger pair than those who are on the table, or maybe a set

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

results oriented leaks ITT

put villain on a range. do not fold because our equity is "only" 50%.

Results orientated?

I said what i reitterated before the results were posted.

For me this is an incredibly easy lay down, we are crushed so much. I said it before and after the results.

 

[Zybomb]

Results orientated?

I said what i reitterated before the results were posted.

For me this is an incredibly easy lay down, we are crushed so much. I said it before and after the results.

Umm..

You simply cannot fold, not only have you basically commited yourself but you're ahead a lot of the time aswell.

He could have flush draws, he could have 55-99 easily considering his pre bet was so big it didnt seem like he wanted too much action.

I jam this all day

I did miss that, sory, but i stand by my guns here mate.

You cant fold.

We have started the hand with 18k, and by the flop have put 8k in. You've put 40% of your stack in and therefore cannot fold, as you could easily be ahead and you're putting the other 60% in to win 36-40k.

Just cant fold imo

 

[baudib1]

wp