Hi there! I busted out of a deep stack tournament recently because of the following hand. I would like some help in figuring out if I could’ve have avoided something or if it was just bad play that got rewarded. Hero- female, villain: male

Blinds- 200sb, 300bb with 300 ante.
Hero- 20k stack size; Villain- 35k
Villain opens with 600 from HJ
Folded to Hero in SB, holding AJo.
Hero 3bets $1800.
Villain calls.
Heads up.
Flop- 7J2 rainbow
Hero bets 2k
Villain calls
Turn is Ac (there are now 2 clubs on the board)
Hero bets 4K
Villain calls
River is 5c
Hero bets 5k
Villain shoves, hero calls.
Villain shows 34cc for riveted Flush.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by L0m0

Hi there! I busted out of a deep stack tournament recently because of the following hand. I would like some help in figuring out if I could’ve have avoided something or if it was just bad play that got rewarded. Hero- female, villain: male

Blinds- 200sb, 300bb with 300 ante.
Hero- 20k stack size; Villain- 35k
Villain opens with 600 from HJ
Folded to Hero in SB, holding AJo.
Hero 3bets $1800.
Villain calls.
Heads up.
Flop- 7J2 rainbow
Hero bets 2k
Villain calls
Turn is Ac (there are now 2 clubs on the board)
Hero bets 4K
Villain calls
River is 5c
Hero bets 5k
Villain shoves, hero calls.
Villain shows 34cc for riveted Flush.

Thoughts?

Don't like villians call on the flop. However the turn is good for him giving him straight and flush draws. He's just about got the pot odds to call on the turn. I think at this point you made an error. Your bet should of been about 6k to price out flush draws. On the river your bet is really weak telling the villian that his low end flush is good and he shoves. At this point you should fold think what is he river shoving that you beat?

I think what threw me off was the call on the flop. He called preflop 3bet really light and continued on the flop when he did not connect. I was betting for value at that point. I suppose I should have folded the river, but folding top 2 pair on that board with running flush cards was not something I would expect to do in that situation.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think your 2 pair is going to be beat fairly often here unless you have a read on villain that he'll make bold bluff plays. A flush honestly makes the most sense for villain, any sets or 2 pairs that included an ace would probably raise turn(unless their set or 2 pair included 5s). It's definitely a bit weird(or bad) to call preflop and then again postflop with villains holding, but on turn it's an easy call as implied odds are excellent. The post flop call makes a touch more sense with such a small bet from you, maybe he floated to try and steal it on the turn. You generally aren't going to connect with that board often. I don't mind the river bet as much as previous poster, I think often enough villain will have AQ or A 10 and call down a small bet. Definitely enough hands there that a small value bet makes sense. Once he jams, you basically have a bluff catcher only as any hand he's jamming with for value has you beat.

Originally Posted by L0m0

Hi there! I busted out of a deep stack tournament recently because of the following hand. I would like some help in figuring out if I could’ve have avoided something or if it was just bad play that got rewarded. Hero- female, villain: male

Blinds- 200sb, 300bb with 300 ante.
Hero- 20k stack size; Villain- 35k
Villain opens with 600 from HJ
Folded to Hero in SB, holding AJo.
Hero 3bets $1800.
Villain calls.
Heads up.
Flop- 7J2 rainbow
Hero bets 2k
Villain calls
Turn is Ac (there are now 2 clubs on the board)
Hero bets 4K
Villain calls
River is 5c
Hero bets 5k
Villain shoves, hero calls.
Villain shows 34cc for riveted Flush.

Thoughts?

One aspect of the hand that may help in deciding on the river call of the shove is, was the flopped J or the J in your hand the club? If you don't have it and the board is not the Jc the villain could very easily have top pair back door flush draw.

That is the first thing I consider on the turn when a second club hits.

Hope this helps.

on a revier on his raise, all-olin needs to be thrown out, you already don't beat anything. Unfortunately, this is what poker is.

I just do not understand - the enemy went to the ol-in on the river? Anyway, I don't see any mistakes on your part. On the river you had to get here c AK, AQ, KK, QQ. Fold all-in is impossible here. You have a monster and you can not play a fold here, as the Bank is already huge. I would never drop here. Villain on my view played on preflop and flop very foolish.

you have a typo in the antes it's 30 i guess
Pre-flop:
I like underepping this kind of Ax's in BB vs late position spots but 3bet is also fine.
3bet slightly bigger pre as you're 70bb deep and you give him 25% equity, I wouldn't mind going 4x with all of my range but it depends on how much you are 3betting.

Flop:
I like the sizing considering is rainbow

Turn:
I would make it bigger, like 60 70% pot, not because we are afraid, but for value, you bet like 40 30% giving him odds to call with some backdoor broadways on that turn.

River:
I think we defenitly should go for value here, to me his range is mostly smaller Ax's and some broadways Jx KQos mixed with some backdoor combo draws, so I would bet thin so that a Jx can call
When he shoves either you got a read on him or this is full value, he didn't even had to get there on the river, he could play all pocket pairs like this 77 JJ is likely, plus your range is capped to AK strong ace's, so unless you know he is capable of doing insane bluffs it's a fold.
I would fold this to most players, but maybe a computer is capable of taking this line as a bluff, but it's wierd since your perceived range includes a lot of Ax.

TLDR: his shoving range on that river is extremely polarized, either he is a player who can turn some clubs into buffs or he has value everytime, and his value is better then yours, because I don't think a normal player shoves A5 on that river, so I think when you call you have to put in on bluffs.

Originally Posted by L0m0

Hi there! I busted out of a deep stack tournament recently because of the following hand. I would like some help in figuring out if I could’ve have avoided something or if it was just bad play that got rewarded. Hero- female, villain: male

Blinds- 200sb, 300bb with 300 ante.
Hero- 20k stack size; Villain- 35k
Villain opens with 600 from HJ
Folded to Hero in SB, holding AJo.
Hero 3bets $1800.
Villain calls.
Heads up.
Flop- 7J2 rainbow
Hero bets 2k
Villain calls
Turn is Ac (there are now 2 clubs on the board)
Hero bets 4K
Villain calls
River is 5c
Hero bets 5k
Villain shoves, hero calls.
Villain shows 34cc for riveted Flush.

Thoughts?

Preflop 3bet should generally be a bit larger.

Flop looks good, could go little larger to like 2500 or 3k.

Turn I would go larger, 5k or 6k or even 7k would be good.

River I'd go larger as well, definitely not folding to a shove.

Originally Posted by beerzy

you have a typo in the antes it's 30 i guess
Pre-flop:
I like underepping this kind of Ax's in BB vs late position spots but 3bet is also fine.
3bet slightly bigger pre as you're 70bb deep and you give him 25% equity, I wouldn't mind going 4x with all of my range but it depends on how much you are 3betting.

Flop:
I like the sizing considering is rainbow

Turn:
I would make it bigger, like 60 70% pot, not because we are afraid, but for value, you bet like 40 30% giving him odds to call with some backdoor broadways on that turn.

River:
I think we defenitly should go for value here, to me his range is mostly smaller Ax's and some broadways Jx KQos mixed with some backdoor combo draws, so I would bet thin so that a Jx can call
When he shoves either you got a read on him or this is full value, he didn't even had to get there on the river, he could play all pocket pairs like this 77 JJ is likely, plus your range is capped to AK strong ace's, so unless you know he is capable of doing insane bluffs it's a fold.
I would fold this to most players, but maybe a computer is capable of taking this line as a bluff, but it's wierd since your perceived range includes a lot of Ax.

TLDR: his shoving range on that river is extremely polarized, either he is a player who can turn some clubs into buffs or he has value everytime, and his value is better then yours, because I don't think a normal player shoves A5 on that river, so I think when you call you have to put in on bluffs.

$300 is BB ante. They charge the BB the antes during every orbit.

Originally Posted by Ryan Laplante

Preflop 3bet should generally be a bit larger.

Flop looks good, could go little larger to like 2500 or 3k.

Turn I would go larger, 5k or 6k or even 7k would be good.

River I'd go larger as well, definitely not folding to a shove.

Thank you for your insight. What would you consider appropriate for sizing pre-flop?

I will adjust my sizing. I suppose if I would've bet larger on the flop he might've folded. I was hoping to get value at that point.

I couldn't find a fold in that spot.

general question what to do on turn. in a such sutuations i prefer to push against fish if i think his drawing. at least you have outs for FH

Was this at the SHR in Hollywood Florida?

Regards,
GiGiCat

Originally Posted by GiGiCat

Was this at the SHR in Hollywood Florida?

Regards,
GiGiCat

Yes it was.

Originally Posted by zuker

general question what to do on turn. in a such sutuations i prefer to push against fish if i think his drawing. at least you have outs for FH

I honestly wish I would've pushed on the turn... Hindsight is 20/20!

Originally Posted by L0m0

Yes it was.

That's a great tournament. Played it myself. Shot two bullets, both bullets misfired unfortunately.

That wasn't on Saturdays first flight on table 69 was it?

Regards,
GigiCat

It was not.. it was Saturday 2nd flight. Did this happen to someone else?

I fired 2 bullets as well.. first one was a cooler, second one was this disaster. lol. On to the next one!

For me the villain played that hand very badly with 34 s I would have folded in the pre-flop, then the call on the flop I do not understand he has only 34 there is nothing on the flop that can serve the turn and the river it was just luck he got the flush and won a hand he should not even play

Weak flop raise is when you lost this one.Villain is very probably loose player who thinks something like this k i have strait draw so why not pay this small raise to see what happens, turn comes ok i now have a straight and a flush draw lets try to eliminate him oh i did it.So next time you play that flop more aggressively or if you play it like this hope that strait or especially flush doesn't come up or you are in trouble.

Originally Posted by L0m0

Thank you for your insight. What would you consider appropriate for sizing pre-flop?

I will adjust my sizing. I suppose if I would've bet larger on the flop he might've folded. I was hoping to get value at that point.

I couldn't find a fold in that spot.

I would suggest 3betting to roughly 4x the preflop open size when you are out of position, but especially early in a live tourney I could see myself even going a bit larger.

Larger every street in a soft live format is definitely not a bad plan, but also don't start thinking "oh if I bet larger he would have folded" - it's GREAT for us that he's peeling 43 with a couple weak backdoor draws on the flop. Our goal is never to run out EVERY draw and force villain to only have strong pairs or the nuts... then we'd just be running into top pair and sets all the time.

You can't possibly fold river, since villain can overvalue worse two pairs, and shouldn't have a TON of backdoor flushes, however, I think it's SUPER relevant whether the Jc is on the board/in your hand or not. If it's possible for this guy to hold Jx of clubs... which he's never folding on flop... and NEVER folding on turn... that sort of changes things a bit.

I'm not saying we get to get away, but it may depend on price we're getting, and this is a FAR better spot for us if the Jc is already gone from the deck than if it's still possibly in the villain's hands.

Also just lol at this:

Hero- female, villain: male

Why is that even relevant to this hand at all???

Originally Posted by Ryan Laplante

Preflop 3bet should generally be a bit larger.

Flop looks good, could go little larger to like 2500 or 3k.

Turn I would go larger, 5k or 6k or even 7k would be good.

River I'd go larger as well, definitely not folding to a shove.

Thats true. TC, you was just unlucky in this spot.

Your line is fine. Your sizings are all just a little small.

I’d 3bet to 4.0-4.25 pre since we are deep. If stacks were 40-50bb I’d 3bet 3.5-4.0

The flop Cbet is fine...you could go a little smaller or a little bigger depending on your goals but because we are kinda deep I’m going a little bigger. Like 60% pot

Turn Gin! Now I’m going big because he has something and if he floated with an Ace we got him. If the Ace scares him he’ll probably fold regardless of size. Also I barrel Ace turns a lot whether or not I have one and I usually go 60-75% pot so I need to do this when I have an Ace as well.

The river is whatever. Cannot fold. It’s a bad beat

Originally Posted by Scourrge

I would suggest 3betting to roughly 4x the preflop open size when you are out of position, but especially early in a live tourney I could see myself even going a bit larger.

Larger every street in a soft live format is definitely not a bad plan, but also don't start thinking "oh if I bet larger he would have folded" - it's GREAT for us that he's peeling 43 with a couple weak backdoor draws on the flop. Our goal is never to run out EVERY draw and force villain to only have strong pairs or the nuts... then we'd just be running into top pair and sets all the time.

You can't possibly fold river, since villain can overvalue worse two pairs, and shouldn't have a TON of backdoor flushes, however, I think it's SUPER relevant whether the Jc is on the board/in your hand or not. If it's possible for this guy to hold Jx of clubs... which he's never folding on flop... and NEVER folding on turn... that sort of changes things a bit.

I'm not saying we get to get away, but it may depend on price we're getting, and this is a FAR better spot for us if the Jc is already gone from the deck than if it's still possibly in the villain's hands.

Also just lol at this:

Why is that even relevant to this hand at all???

Scourrge I’d agree the female/male thing is irrelevant if she hasn’t given a player read. However ALL female poker players I’ve talked to tend to agree vs certain types of males we just have to buckle down and call their barrels and raises. It’s both a blessing and a curse that certain males target females thinking that they can make us fold all rivers.

I realize you are a thinking player so you don’t approach pots with this mentality...trust me though...these dudes do exist. And it’s ramped up towards females. It’s also a huge leak for a female player to think ALL men are this way. Most are not.

I don’t like folding...so...I don’t mind these guys so much. I’d rather be at their table than YOUR table.

Originally Posted by Jacki Burkhart

Scourrge I’d agree the female/male thing is irrelevant if she hasn’t given a player read. However ALL female poker players I’ve talked to tend to agree vs certain types of males we just have to buckle down and call their barrels and raises. It’s both a blessing and a curse that certain males target females thinking that they can make us fold all rivers.

I realize you are a thinking player so you don’t approach pots with this mentality...trust me though...these dudes do exist. And it’s ramped up towards females. It’s also a huge leak for a female player to think ALL men are this way. Most are not.

I don’t like folding...so...I don’t mind these guys so much. I’d rather be at their table than YOUR table.

I actually agree with you 100% and I've got enough live table experience to have seen it first-hand despite not really leaning that way myself at all.

However, without any additional info, I guarantee that comment gives no additional information to most people reading this on CardsChat, and just serves to confuse imo. With additional info it could be a relevant part of a read, for sure, but I just didn't find it to add anything here, so I found it an odd statement with no additional context.

Originally Posted by L0m0

Hi there! I busted out of a deep stack tournament recently because of the following hand. I would like some help in figuring out if I could’ve have avoided something or if it was just bad play that got rewarded. Hero- female, villain: male

Blinds- 200sb, 300bb with 300 ante.
Hero- 20k stack size; Villain- 35k
Villain opens with 600 from HJ
Folded to Hero in SB, holding AJo.
Hero 3bets $1800.
Villain calls.
Heads up.
Flop- 7J2 rainbow
Hero bets 2k
Villain calls
Turn is Ac (there are now 2 clubs on the board)
Hero bets 4K
Villain calls
River is 5c
Hero bets 5k
Villain shoves, hero calls.
Villain shows 34cc for riveted Flush.

Thoughts?

Sounds like a normal hand of poker gl out there

Accident!?? Look carefully at the board and answer the question: what range did you put the villain after the third club on the river. If you saved the chips, you would still be in the game. Good luck!