$.50 NLHE MTT: KK Three Handed

[Jon Poker]

How do you play this one?

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 150/300 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 9.73 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 11.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 44)
MP+1: 63.45 BB (VPIP: 36.84, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
MP+2: 10 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
CO: 9 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
BTN: 51.25 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 79)
Hero (SB): 165.21 BB
BB: 60.97 BB (VPIP: 35.71, PFR: 30.77, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 14)
UTG: 11.92 BB (VPIP: 19.64, PFR: 5.63, 3Bet Preflop: 5.08, Hands: 230)
UTG+1: 91 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

9 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.7 BB) Hero has K:heart: K:spade:

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, BB calls 8 BB, CO calls 6.87 BB and is all-in

Flop: (28.07 BB, 3 players) T:heart: Q:diamond: 4:club:
Hero bets 21.67 BB, BB calls 21.67 BB

Turn: (71.4 BB, 3 players) 7:heart:
Hero bets 134.41 BB and is all-in, BB calls 30.17 BB and is all-in

River: (131.74 BB, 3 players) 6:diamond:

CO shows 5:spade: 4:diamond: (One Pair, Fours)

Main Pot [27.8 BB]: (Pre 19%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)

Hero shows K:heart: K:spade: (One Pair, Kings)

Main Pot [27.8 BB]: (Pre 64%, Flop 18%, Turn 12%)
Side Pot#1 [103.94 BB]: (Pre 82%, Flop 26%, Turn 17%)

BB shows T:spade: Q:spade: (Two Pair, Queens and Tens)

Main Pot [27.8 BB]: (Pre 17%, Flop 74%, Turn 83%)
Side Pot#1 [103.94 BB]: (Pre 18%, Flop 74%, Turn 83%)

BB wins 131.74 BB

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

you played it absolutely fine.

if I was being really nit picky I could say to bet slightly smaller on flop since a 75% pot bet is a bit tough for some 1 pair hands to call. But I wouldn't change it a ton because you want to be jamming turn often. so you could be as little as 12-16bb on flop which leaves you a good jamming stack on the turn.

as you played it is fine as well....you just may find the times you are still ahead on the flop you lose value from hands like JJ or AT by betting so much.

 

[Veritas]

pre is fine


flop is too big
I don't see any draws in his 3bet calling range on the bb. We have 2 blockers for KJ and there are no other draws on this flop if he folds J9. so your almost pot size bet is too big.
I would go for half pot size


turn is just spewing your Chips
the 7 doesn't improve any Hand in this spot, so why shove 130bb like a donk here? you have to bet smaller to get Chips from AQ, KQ, Qx Tx combodraws.
with such a huge bet, he will call you only with a better Hand like a set or two pair. so your sizing is not very efficiently.


sure KK is a strong Hand in this spot, but you totally overplayed it and got punished for it.

 

[Jon Poker]

pre is fine


flop is too big
I don't see any draws in his 3bet calling range on the bb. We have 2 blockers for KJ and there are no other draws on this flop if he folds J9. so your almost pot size bet is too big.
I would go for half pot size


turn is just spewing your Chips
the 7 doesn't improve any Hand in this spot, so why shove 130bb like a donk here? you have to bet smaller to get Chips from AQ, KQ, Qx Tx combodraws.
with such a huge bet, he will call you only with a better Hand like a set or two pair. so your sizing is not very efficiently.


sure KK is a strong Hand in this spot, but you totally overplayed it and got punished for it.

Thanks for the reply and your take on this hand but I am going to have to disagree with certain aspects of the analysis....he called a cold 3bet from the SB with Q10...a hand this marginal should have been folded and only premiums should be in his range from this point on. I could possibly see him floating QQ before he cold flats Q10.

Anyhow, the flop sizing is big I agree - i could have definitely sized down but I want to setup the jam on the turn. I think even if I bet 15-18bb in this spot that i am still jamming the turn when it comes a brick like it did. If they called 21bb on the flop - why is putting them all in for 30bb spewing chips? Especially when the turn doesnt change anything, doesnt change any sort of draws they could be making a stand with, if he floated that flop with 77 then good for them.

In my head their range puts them on AQ, KQ, JJ maybe some weird combo draws - hands like that - a set probably shoves on the flop given my aggressive sizing anyhow - I would expect 2 pair hands to do the same and the flop doesnt really bring any premium holdings into question - so I set them up for maximum value getting it all in on the turn and they showed up with Q10.

I know these are lower stakes but if I am going to assume every player is flatting a cold 3bet from the SB with Q10 and other marginal holdings - seems like it changes the entire strategy of how this should be played. In the end here - I think they made a terrible call, got lucky and that's pretty much all that can be said. Would you have honestly put them on Q10 everytime on a board like this?

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

pre is fine


flop is too big
I don't see any draws in his 3bet calling range on the bb. We have 2 blockers for KJ and there are no other draws on this flop if he folds J9. so your almost pot size bet is too big.
I would go for half pot size


turn is just spewing your Chips
the 7 doesn't improve any Hand in this spot, so why shove 130bb like a donk here? you have to bet smaller to get Chips from AQ, KQ, Qx Tx combodraws.
with such a huge bet, he will call you only with a better Hand like a set or two pair. so your sizing is not very efficiently.


sure KK is a strong Hand in this spot, but you totally overplayed it and got punished for it.

The turn shove isn’t as big as it looks because villain only has 30bb. From that perspective it’s fine and standard

 

[Veritas]

Thanks for the reply and your take on this hand but I am going to have to disagree with certain aspects of the analysis....he called a cold 3bet from the SB with Q10...a hand this marginal should have been folded and only premiums should be in his range from this point on. I could possibly see him floating QQ before he cold flats Q10.
absolutly, the QT call was not a good one.
Anyhow, the flop sizing is big I agree - i could have definitely sized down but I want to setup the jam on the turn. I think even if I bet 15-18bb in this spot that i am still jamming the turn when it comes a brick like it did. If they called 21bb on the flop - why is putting them all in for 30bb spewing chips? Especially when the turn doesnt change anything, doesnt change any sort of draws they could be making a stand with, if he floated that flop with 77 then good for them.
I thought he called with 130bb, not with 30. 130 would have been 2x pot size. like you said, it was a brick and won't Change anything.
I think you won't extract enough value from weaker Hands if you bet so big. only stronger Hands are going to call. If you check the brick or bet small, you might get them to call another street. I would not be afraid on draws from turn to river, so we don't have to shove here.
In my head their range puts them on AQ, KQ, JJ maybe some weird combo draws - hands like that - a set probably shoves on the flop given my aggressive sizing anyhow - I would expect 2 pair hands to do the same and the flop doesnt really bring any premium holdings into question - so I set them up for maximum value getting it all in on the turn and they showed up with Q10.
If he has a set and sees the big bet, his best would be to just call in Position and let you fire another bullet on the turn. let the Aggressor bet and just Play passive with the stronger Hand.
I know these are lower stakes but if I am going to assume every player is flatting a cold 3bet from the SB with Q10 and other marginal holdings - seems like it changes the entire strategy of how this should be played. In the end here - I think they made a terrible call, got lucky and that's pretty much all that can be said. Would you have honestly put them on Q10 everytime on a board like this?
absolutly, he is just a calling Station that would have called here with any A or PP I guess.
hard to put him on a Hand with only a few played hands. Hard to give him QT in this spot.

The turn shove isn’t as big as it looks because villain only has 30bb. From that perspective it’s fine and standard

oh sorry, I missed that one.
well then the shove is fine, but I still think he kinda overplayed his KK

 

[Jon Poker]

oh sorry, I missed that one.
well then the shove is fine, but I still think he kinda overplayed his KK

What range do you put the BB on cold calling a 3 bet from the SB like that? I am not trying to drag this out - i am genuinely curious. I just dont have Q10 in there...suited or not.

 

[Veritas]

What range do you put the BB on cold calling a 3 bet from the SB like that? I am not trying to drag this out - i am genuinely curious. I just dont have Q10 in there...suited or not.

really good Question. If we Discount the flat calls we should 4bet I don't see a lot of Hands in the 3bet calling range with the original raiser behind to act AND if he just calls we have to Play the Hand multiway out of Position.
Maybe AJs AQo 88-TT, but I don't think it would be a correct Play.
I think I would rather 4bet/fold those Hands than call. Really a bad spot to call Overall. we have to Play our pocket pairs for set value and a 3bet to 9bb seems to be a bit too expensive.
I read somewhere that you should not call for more than 10% of your stack (9bb > 10% of 60bb) with a speculative Hand (suited connectors, small pp, Broadways,...).

 

[yoejslattery]

The only thing I will say is that I think i would have paused for a second when they called the flop bet. It was a tad big and I have found that people don't do a lot of floating at this level, so i have to start thinking that maybe I got called by better. people overvalue hands like QJ and QT and any pocket pair so I could even see villian showing up with 44. I think result probably would have been the same with the overpair but I do think that thinking about what he flats with from the BB may be giving this player too much credit. Again, still unlucky that he hit two pair but sometimes I slow down with KK and AA since it is only one pair.

 

[fundiver199]

Him having QTs show, that you just ran into the top of his range, because then he also have at least AQ, KQ, KJs, QJs. That being said my alarm bells do ring a little bit, when someone cold call a 3-bet, and I see a flop like QTX. Often that cold calling range is something like 99-QQ, AK, which mean he is only stacking off as a bluff, or if we are beat.

For that reason its usually better to bet a small size on the flop to get value from hands like JJ or AK. We still cant get away though, so its more a question of getting max value, when he have those weaker hands. If we can induce a bluff shove from AK for instance, that is pretty great for us.