$5 NLHE STT: Is Second Pair Turn Shove Reasonable?

[scooba13]

Merge - $5 9 player SNG<> NL - Holdem - Heads Up for last 2 places
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 28.28 BB
BB: 25.72 BB (VPIP: 30.91, PFR: 12.15, 3Bet Preflop: 8.51, hands: 112)

2 players post ante of 0.1 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.7 BB) Hero has 5c 6d
Hero calls 0.5 BB, BB checks

Flop : (2.2 BB, 2 players) 3s 5h 9h
BB bets 2.2 BB, Hero calls 2.2 BB

Turn : (6.6 BB, 2 players) 9c
BB bets 3.3 BB, Hero raises to 24.98 BB and is all-in, BB calls 19.12 BB and is all-in

I'm still trying to figure out how to post a Merge hand so it looks nice (via poker tracker?). Any advice would be appreciated.

Villain was fairly aggressive with draws and sometimes air. The purpose of my shove was to get him to fold any draw or overcards considering the vulnerability of my hand to his likely range. I figured it unlikely he had a 9 or pair better than 5's. I also didn't want a tricky decision on the river when the inevitable overcard hit.

 

[WiZZiM]

Just flat and see a river. You dont want him to fold his bluffs and he will rarely call with worse or fold better. And we dont really need to risk everything in this spot being so deep and with so much time left

With your reads im calling turn and most likely calling most rivers too

 

[kefir]

I would have raised the flop. I mean it is significantly cheaper to raise the flop for 2.2 BB, than to shove the turn. Then you don't want him to see anything, because a pair of 5s is really vulnerable.

 

[horizon12]

Stack not very big and steal raise with 65o this very risk what win 1.5 bb with very small antes,,, So better fold preflop,,, Call we do not consider , because its very light and in postflop game will be difficult play if not get nuts,,,

About your post flop game, in flop i am only call, and in river only check/fold , if he bet again... Because we dont know nothing about villain and this your shove only on luck ....

 

[scooba13]

Thanks for replies

I guess my thinking is that it's really hard to hit a pair heads up and that when the 9 came it was highly unlikely that he had a nine so it's very likely I'm best but vulnerable. I don't think he has any kind of a made hand because of the preflop action. But he's going to bet the river whether he hits or misses - putting me in a tough spot.

It wasn't a turbo and the stacks were still quite deep so the point that this was too aggressive a line is well taken.

In the event villain called with J8H - a flush draw and overcards - but wiffed, ending the SNG.

 

[rumsey182]

why are we ever completing the BB?

 

[horizon12]

why are we ever completing the BB?

because we will not to know anything about the range of hands if only completing , and will play difficult postflop game...

 

[scooba13]

why are we ever completing the BB?

Is your point here that I should generally raise in this situation, that just completing looks weak and defines my hand?

That's what I generally think about limping heads up - however, sometimes heads up matched seem to devolve into limp-call fests with each player trying to outplay the other on the flop - I'm pretty happy to play that game, especially when the other player shows a tendency to reraise a lot preflop.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

The purpose of my shove was to get him to fold any draw or overcards considering the vulnerability of my hand to his likely range. I figured it unlikely he had a 9 or pair better than 5's. I also didn't want a tricky decision on the river when the inevitable overcard hit.

Check call flop
Check call turn
Check call river (unless you boat up, then lead out and see if he'll call with A hi)

Your hand is significantly better on the turn than on the flop, and as such you have less to fear. We shouldn't be pushing to fold out his draws and overcards since his draws and overcard hands have little equity with only 1 card to come, so by jamming you fold out his bluffs and basically only ever get called by 66+ or a random 9. (I am wrong obviously since he called with a flush draw and 1 over).

So, if you DO jam it should be because you think he'll call with worse hands not to fold out hands that have little equity.....

 

[rumsey182]

because we will not to know anything about the range of hands if only completing , and will play difficult postflop game...

how is this true?we will know my min opening , playing a standard cbet kind of game,.. and making adjustments as we go. Limping the SB for such a low effective stack lets a good play just punish you and your begging for being punished by limping a weak hand. what is stopping him from raising the top 60% of hands and checking everything else? or checking and betting almost every flop? It is just a bad overall strategy and if your doing it as an exploit do it with a good hand vs a shove heavy villain

Is your point here that I should generally raise in this situation, that just completing looks weak and defines my hand?

That's what I generally think about limping heads up - however, sometimes heads up matched seem to devolve into limp-call fests with each player trying to outplay the other on the flop - I'm pretty happy to play that game, especially when the other player shows a tendency to reraise a lot preflop.

yes, you should in a HU situation with these stacks be min opening give or take any playable hand unless villain is very 3 bet shove happy then i would tighten up a little

if it is a limp call fest why don't you limp some hands to back raise allin. Limping with the intention of calling with 56 is really bad

think about what you can do to punish his play, if he 3 bets a lot develop a shove range overtop. you have options but without any reason it is bad to limp the button he has to fold at least 30% even if he is very aggro ( assuming he isn't defending highly unplayable hands)

think of overall strategy not the hand itself

 

[scooba13]

Thanks for the additional advice

Missjacki - I guess I generally hate to just call, call, call - unless I figure villain for a total bluffster. My reasoning is that a raise makes their decisions harder (and a shove makes my decisions easier) although in this case afterwards I thought that a shove was maybe too aggressive despite the positive outcome in this case.

To rumsey's point - I agree limp calling low connectors preflop isn't something you want to do - when there's a lot of preflop limping I don't mind limping wide (even risking my good hands running up against raggedy 2 prs) if it might lure villain into a raise when I've got the goods.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Missjacki - I guess I generally hate to just call, call, call - unless I figure villain for a total bluffster. My reasoning is that a raise makes their decisions harder (and a shove makes my decisions easier) although in this case afterwards I thought that a shove was maybe too aggressive despite the positive outcome in this case.

I understand not wanting to develop passive tendencies...but for certain situations when you're out of position it is the best way to play a hand with showdown value on a board where you're usually either way ahead or way behind.

You don't want to just be aggressive for the sake of aggression either, especially when it's not logical.