$5.50 SNG - shortstacked on button with ATo

[pigpen02]

STT, 1,2, and 3 have not been making any strong moves. I assume they are trying to put me out as the short stack. Any time I get a premium hand and raise, it is folded to me. Blinds are getting up and I have this chance to double up and make it a four person game again. Do I call this or wait for something better with an M of only 5?

full tilt poker Game #3448653241: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (26358863), Table 1 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:27:22 ET - 2007/09/03
Seat 1: Biggolfer72 (5,660)
Seat 6: mab4480 (4,445)
Seat 8: csgj (2,205)
Seat 9: Pigpen02 (1,190)
Biggolfer72 posts the small blind of 80
mab4480 posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pigpen02
csgj folds
Pigpen02 calls 160
Biggolfer72 raises to 5,660, and is all in
mab4480 folds

 

[ChuckTs]

Push push push!!! This should be a push preflop every time. As played, I think we have to call, but for the love of god please push PF

 

[Effexor]

I'd also have pushed preflop.

I'd suggest looking at Harrington on Hold'em Vol.2 for shorthanded play.

 

[broncos53]

Chucks right you have to push here. Its not only the right play shorthanded but also short stacked as the leader has 5X as many chips as you do.

 

[AnAirplane]

With an M of 5, it's definitely push or fold time. Calling's just bleeding chips and putting you to decisions like this.

AT is worth a push, so you pretty much have to call the raise here; but if you had shoved first, you might have scared him off, taken down the blinds, and bought yourself some time.

 

[hott_estelle]

Under 10xBB stack, never just straight call.

Either push or fold preflop.

This situation, you have to push.

 

[Sirro712]

ya i would call that cause you have the highest card with a 10 witch is a decent care to have in an all in i would

 

[ph_il]

This is a clear push PF with your stack size.
Also, blinds are coming up and your stack would lose even more value and A10 is probably as good of a hand as you'll get...especially when short stacked. I would push any Ace in this situation and really get aggressive on the bubble.

Also, you want to put pressure on your opponents and force them to have a hand call you. By just calling you give your opponents a chance to come over the top and put the pressure on you. So, why give them that chance and beat them to the punch?

If your opponent(s) call and you lose the hand, so be it. You're short stack, you have a strong hand vs 4 handed, and you cant fault yourself for making a move in this situation.

 

[stormswa]

 

[ph_il]

Any time I get a premium hand and raise, it is folded to me.

Also, if this is working for you, why limp in now? Why not raise/push and possibly take the blinds?

 

[stormswa]

Also, if this is working for you, why limp in now? Why not raise/push and possibly take the blinds?

I dont feel like finding that quote so im just going to add onto yours, also you do realize taking down the blinds with your chip stack is such a bonus.

 

[OzExorcist]

Short answer: yep, call it.

Slightly longer answer: Depending on how the other three have been playing I'm not 100% against a call or a small raise pre-flop if (and only if) the goal is to try and improve the action you're receivng by inducing one of the other players to try bullying you out of the pot with a substandard holding.

If you open shove, you're only going to get action from premium hands. Maybe this is a way to bring the standard of the hand you're playing against down.

Like many slowplays it'd be a risky move though - you'd really want to know that people had been bullying with substandard cards before you attempted it. And if you know they're likely to call an open shove with substandard cards anyway (say, QT or something) then there's just no point - shove away to start with.

Edit: missed the line about them folding to pre-flop raises in the OP - I'm assuming this is why you limped, to get the action? If that was the case, I guess you got what you wanted. If you don't want to have to make a hard decision though, the open shove would've been better.

 

[stormswa]

Short answer: yep, call it.

Slightly longer answer: Depending on how the other three have been playing I'm not 100% against a call or a small raise pre-flop if (and only if) the goal is to try and improve the action you're receivng by inducing one of the other players to try bullying you out of the pot with a substandard holding.

If you open shove, you're only going to get action from premium hands. Maybe this is a way to bring the standard of the hand you're playing against down.

Like many slowplays it'd be a risky move though - you'd really want to know that people had been bullying with substandard cards before you attempted it. And if you know they're likely to call an open shove with substandard cards anyway (say, QT or something) then there's just no point - shove away to start with.

Edit: missed the line about them folding to pre-flop raises in the OP - I'm assuming this is why you limped, to get the action? If that was the case, I guess you got what you wanted. If you don't want to have to make a hard decision though, the open shove would've been better.

Im sory but there are soo many things incorrect about this post. I have enjoyed your posts in the past but there is just no way anyone should play a hand like this.

you have to shove this preflop bottom line, you have a M of 5!!!!!!! you have zero fold equity and no you will get called by hands that are a lot worse then AT - KQ, KJ hell 9T suited should call you getting 4-1 here.

you have to shove this and you need to shove now before the blinds come back around. And if you take this down preflop you add 240 to your stack which is a increase of 20% to your stack.

 

[OzExorcist]

Im sory but there are soo many things incorrect about this post. I have enjoyed your posts in the past but there is just no way anyone should play a hand like this.

you have to shove this preflop bottom line, you have a M of 5!!!!!!! you have zero fold equity and no you will get called by hands that are a lot worse then AT - KQ, KJ hell 9T suited should call you getting 4-1 here.

you have to shove this and you need to shove now before the blinds come back around. And if you take this down preflop you add 240 to your stack which is a increase of 20% to your stack.

All true - I'm just saying: if we're looking to double up and we're not getting any action, this is probably the way to induce it and give the best chance of being up against a substandard hand.

Whether that's a clever thing to be doing is another question altogether I guess.

 

[stormswa]

All true - I'm just saying: if we're looking to double up and we're not getting any action, this is probably the way to induce it and give the best chance of being up against a substandard hand.

Whether that's a clever thing to be doing is another question altogether I guess.

taking the blinds and "chipping up" is just as good as doubling up here. put it this way we have like 1100 in chips right and each orbit causes us 240 right. if we go through another blind we are down to 860 which is 3M and we are in horrible spot and we lost total fold equity. This is the best spot to shove at this point you should be shoving any 2 broadway, any pair or any suited connector.

I would actually love to see you push with 5m with 5d6d because you know you will get called light and only be a 60/40 dog. Remeber we need to chip up or double up. With 5m we will get called very very very light.

 

[ChuckTs]

I see where you're coming from, Oz, but our hand simply isn't strong enough to slowplay to induce action. Even if we get someone to call with 72o, we're only a ~2:1 favorite.

At this stack size, it's push or fold. We have to use as much fold equity as possible to try and push out some hands that we would normally be coinflipping or 60/40ing with, and possibly bet out some bigger aces (which fwiw I don't see happening at these stakes with your stack).

We should be more than happy about taking just the blinds down.

 

[blankoblanco]

I see where you're coming from, Oz, but our hand simply isn't strong enough to slowplay to induce action.

this ^. plus it's the bubble so "survival" is more important than accumulation, and limping to "induce action" decreases the first one exponentially more than it increases the second. limping here is pretty much terrible no matter what

 

[OzExorcist]

Cool - point taken guys

 

[pigpen02]

Short answer: yep, call it.

Slightly longer answer: Depending on how the other three have been playing I'm not 100% against a call or a small raise pre-flop if (and only if) the goal is to try and improve the action you're receivng by inducing one of the other players to try bullying you out of the pot with a substandard holding.

If you open shove, you're only going to get action from premium hands. Maybe this is a way to bring the standard of the hand you're playing against down.

Like many slowplays it'd be a risky move though - you'd really want to know that people had been bullying with substandard cards before you attempted it. And if you know they're likely to call an open shove with substandard cards anyway (say, QT or something) then there's just no point - shove away to start with.

Edit: missed the line about them folding to pre-flop raises in the OP - I'm assuming this is why you limped, to get the action? If that was the case, I guess you got what you wanted. If you don't want to have to make a hard decision though, the open shove would've been better.

Well, this is why I was in the position I was in. I got what I played for. The consensus is that this is wrong, though, I see. Even Oz recanted. Here is what ensued:

Pigpen02 calls 1,030, and is all in
Biggolfer72 shows
Pigpen02 shows
Uncalled bet of 4,470 returned to Biggolfer72.

Nobody improved. So ended my entry into the Stormswa Challenge. I guess I need to go back and read HoH2 again. Thanks for all of the input.

 

[stormswa]

just to restate, calling a all in and pushing all in with AT are 2 different things totally.