$5.50 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Value Hand Becomes Very Meh Bluff Catcher?

Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,145
Awards
5
Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 24/12/2

Don't really have any reads on the guy. Stats are approximate as they are from memory. I'm pretty comfortable with preflop, flop, and turn decisions but feel free to critique I guess haha.

Also, this is a 6max event. Unfortuantely it's BetOnline so to my knowledge I can't actually get a HH directly for you to review but I wanted to write this one out.

Deepish into this MTT, but not close enough to the money for that to be a factor at all.

Blinds 150/300/30a, 6-max
UTG: 20k
Me (BB): 12,800k

UTG opens to 750. It folds around to me and I have :ac4: :3h4: and I call in the BB.

Flop (1,830) :as4: :7c4: :3c4:
Check check.

Turn (1,830) :kd4:
I bet 1,215 and UTG calls.

River (4,260) :5h4:
I bet 3,500, and UTG jams for my last 7,400.

Most curious if people like the turn and river sizings, and obviously whether we can really call it off here in a micro MTT where people likely aren't balanced, and won't have worse for value on this runout.
 
R

razzor94

Rock Star
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Total posts
344
Awards
1
Pretty loose call pre IMO. Still its 6max so it isnt that bad. Against a good player, which you wont find that often in micro MTTs especially on a site like BetOnline, i would fold.

If you think about it you can pinpoint the value hands that he is representing.
He should be betting this flop like 90-95% as it nails his range. Maybe you have more 2 pair combos as you play all the ofsuit Ax in this spot as i see but his range is just so strongly weighted to Ax.
Still i dont think he thinks like that.
He should check AA here sometimes, A7s, weak Ax with the A of clubs(which you block), KK, QQ and some FDs if he wants to have some of them in his CC range but i still think he cbets all of them. 22-55 are player dependant because he might not even open them pre from UTG and does he even cbet them on the flop.

I think your sizings are very good. Just trying to get as much money in as possible. If he has air he is going to fold anyways no matter the size. Same on the river. Just targeting his weak TP and SP. Maybe he even levels himself to call 88-JJ.
Honestly i dont see him having many bluffs here. He is representing 2 pair or better. Usually when he is not representing many value combos i elect to call but in this spot there are just not that many bluffs. He would have to turn something like 88-JJ and 7x into a bluff for me to call this. Also since this is a micro MTT i think you can still find good spots here with your 25BBs
 
F

formertroll

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Total posts
297
Blinds 150/300/30a, 6-max
UTG: 20k
Me (BB): 12,800k

UTG opens to 750. It folds around to me and I have :ac4: :3h4: and I call in the BB.

Flop (1,830) :as4: :7c4: :3c4:
Check check.

Turn (1,830) :kd4:
I bet 1,215 and UTG calls.

River (4,260) :5h4:
I bet 3,500, and UTG jams for my last 7,400.

Most curious if people like the turn and river sizings, and obviously whether we can really call it off here in a micro MTT where people likely aren't balanced, and won't have worse for value on this runout.


have to be something on the flop there to make ace/bigger and flush/straight draws pay. maybe 1/3 pot? after the turn AK beats you and all the draws are still in, but you bet 2/3 sand when villian calls he's either got you beat at that point or is printing you money calling a bad draw.

the river bet is too big there, the only person who calls you has you beat and the person who raises you is putting you in an awful spot.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,145
Awards
5
Pretty loose call pre IMO. Still its 6max so it isnt that bad. Against a good player, which you wont find that often in micro MTTs especially on a site like BetOnline, i would fold.

If you think about it you can pinpoint the value hands that he is representing.
He should be betting this flop like 90-95% as it nails his range. Maybe you have more 2 pair combos as you play all the ofsuit Ax in this spot as i see but his range is just so strongly weighted to Ax.
Still i dont think he thinks like that.
He should check AA here sometimes, A7s, weak Ax with the A of clubs(which you block), KK, QQ and some FDs if he wants to have some of them in his CC range but i still think he cbets all of them. 22-55 are player dependant because he might not even open them pre from UTG and does he even cbet them on the flop.

I think your sizings are very good. Just trying to get as much money in as possible. If he has air he is going to fold anyways no matter the size. Same on the river. Just targeting his weak TP and SP. Maybe he even levels himself to call 88-JJ.
Honestly i dont see him having many bluffs here. He is representing 2 pair or better. Usually when he is not representing many value combos i elect to call but in this spot there are just not that many bluffs. He would have to turn something like 88-JJ and 7x into a bluff for me to call this. Also since this is a micro MTT i think you can still find good spots here with your 25BBs

Reasonable point about preflop, although tbh against this sizing I'm defending pretty wide, and I don't consider calling all Ax to be that wide. He IS UTG though so while I still think this hand can remain, removing some of the stuff I defend against later opens of course makes sense, so thanks for point that out. I def need to be more careful about that.

I agree mostly with what you're saying about what his check back ranges more or less should be. Which I think begs the question, do we even get value on river? It's the micros so I think the answer is yet but I'm not sure if the river sizing should be smaller.

As played with that size though, when I got raised, I don't want to say it was a trivial fold, because I did tank, but probably my biggest leak is calling rivers too wide against people who aren't capable of bluffing enough, and I just let this one go. Glad I wasn't just losing my mind for a second there.

have to be something on the flop there to make ace/bigger and flush/straight draws pay. maybe 1/3 pot? after the turn AK beats you and all the draws are still in, but you bet 2/3 sand when villian calls he's either got you beat at that point or is printing you money calling a bad draw.

the river bet is too big there, the only person who calls you has you beat and the person who raises you is putting you in an awful spot.


I disagree pretty strongly with this. You suggest leading out on the flop simply to charge aces and draws, yet most of those hands in villain's shoes will be betting the flop anyway, and we can check/raise. Also, leading just super strong value hands like this is a recipe for disaster. Almost everyone who leads flops into the PFR does so in a super unbalanced way, and while that's not horribad against weak fields, in a spot like this it's not going to be as effective as just having a robust check/raise range in my opinion.

Again on the turn you say "AK beats you now" without considering whether the villain will even have AK here often at all (I sincerely doubt it as it will probably be betting the flop 98% of the time).

I do think your point about the river has some merit though. When villain checks back flop, he tends to cap his range pretty heavily, but the turn and river can sometimes make him nutted hands that originated from that capped range. KK comes to mind. Flopped slowplays are also possible.

That being said, I do think some of his capped range will improve on turn enough to call us down, but maybe only at a smaller sizing like half pot. Then again this is the micros, and people just aren't that good at folding showdownable hands when they should.

Thanks guys for the responses!

He didn't show when I folded, but we'd been friendly in chat, and had some back and forths about what he thought I had. In the end it seemed he slowplayed 77 on the flop and only went for the raise on the river. No real reason to doubt him but even before reading chat I like the river fold a lot.
 
B

Biibel

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 6, 2019
Total posts
90
Pretty loose call pre IMO. Still its 6max so it isnt that bad. Against a good player, which you wont find that often in micro MTTs especially on a site like BetOnline, i would fold.


Loose? You always call 1,5bb on bb, whatever you have. Ofc some situations you must be little more careful, mainly if you outta chips, but main thing is defend your blinds.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,303
Awards
1
As for sizing I would go a bit smaller especially on the river. When he check back the flop, his range is pretty capped, so you are targeting hands like KX or a weak AX, that checked back for pot control.

As for calling his raise, what is he even representing here? A5o is a very loose open UTG, and 55 is a very loose call on the turn. So he is saying, that he has like exactly A5 of diamonds, or a slowplayed set?

If he did in fact flop a set, he would surely have stacked you, if he had just bet the flop. So with that in mind I would probably just call here and pay the man his chips. But if he did in fact have 77, as he said in the chat, then you obviously dodged a bullet, and he completely butchered the hand. So well done :)
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Total posts
1,324
The call preflop to defend is standard, checking the flop is standard - do we think our opponent ever checks an ace back here on the flop? Would he just flat our turn bet if he had AK? Or would he raise us on the turn?

This is definitely a weird spot but I have a hard time believing our opponent just floated us with 55 on the turn and hit their 2 outter on the river. UTG in a 6max game is the Lo Jack seat so even tho they are first to act a good 6max player is still opening much wider than an UTG player at a 9 handed game.

I think this becomes a range question. Does he open with AQ? KQ? KJ? What hands do you think you are losing to in this situation? AK KK and 55 are the obvious ones but would they really play these hands the way he did up to the river? Is our opponent capable of targeting a one pair weak ace or weak king here? Possibly turning KQ into a bluff? I dont think good players turn a strong ace into a bluff - AK should have bet flop and if not, should have at least raised turn. AK and AQ, AJ - they are never turning that hand into a bluff I dont think.

This hand reaaaalllllllly makes me want to call. I feel like we are being targeted more than we are being taken to value town. KK is about the only hand that makes sense for me in this spot, i guess you can toss AK in there too if you want but if I am only finding one or two hands in his entire range that I am losing to I am calling off this. That's why we have a bankroll and practice good management, if we lose we move on. If we are folding flopped two pairs out here then he is getting us to fold a chit ton of our range. I think I make the crying call and accept my fate.
 
B

bigpappa325

Visionary
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Total posts
995
Reasonable point about preflop, although tbh against this sizing I'm defending pretty wide, and I don't consider calling all Ax to be that wide. He IS UTG though so while I still think this hand can remain, removing some of the stuff I defend against later opens of course makes sense, so thanks for point that out. I def need to be more careful about that.

I agree mostly with what you're saying about what his check back ranges more or less should be. Which I think begs the question, do we even get value on river? It's the micros so I think the answer is yet but I'm not sure if the river sizing should be smaller.

As played with that size though, when I got raised, I don't want to say it was a trivial fold, because I did tank, but probably my biggest leak is calling rivers too wide against people who aren't capable of bluffing enough, and I just let this one go. Glad I wasn't just losing my mind for a second there.




I disagree pretty strongly with this. You suggest leading out on the flop simply to charge aces and draws, yet most of those hands in villain's shoes will be betting the flop anyway, and we can check/raise. Also, leading just super strong value hands like this is a recipe for disaster. Almost everyone who leads flops into the PFR does so in a super unbalanced way, and while that's not horribad against weak fields, in a spot like this it's not going to be as effective as just having a robust check/raise range in my opinion.

Again on the turn you say "AK beats you now" without considering whether the villain will even have AK here often at all (I sincerely doubt it as it will probably be betting the flop 98% of the time).

I do think your point about the river has some merit though. When villain checks back flop, he tends to cap his range pretty heavily, but the turn and river can sometimes make him nutted hands that originated from that capped range. KK comes to mind. Flopped slowplays are also possible.

That being said, I do think some of his capped range will improve on turn enough to call us down, but maybe only at a smaller sizing like half pot. Then again this is the micros, and people just aren't that good at folding showdownable hands when they should.

Thanks guys for the responses!

He didn't show when I folded, but we'd been friendly in chat, and had some back and forths about what he thought I had. In the end it seemed he slowplayed 77 on the flop and only went for the raise on the river. No real reason to doubt him but even before reading chat I like the river fold a lot.
Do you think you would of got more info by betting the flop? Getting info then would of narrow down things a bit more. If we have his ranges down a call on the flop then on turn you know your in trouble on the river. Sets are dangerous and hard to find. Most cant help then to trap with them. You are the professional so im sure you made the right call.

Be honest with you i have given false information after hands just so they feel they made a good fold, specially if i got one over on them. Just curious what his stack was before hand. Was he big stack just pushing around or close to even?
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

Visionary
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Total posts
797
I am sure, it was easy fold.
What do you think about check-back flop and call turn by opponent with 33,44,55,66,77 and push any 3,4,5,6,7 river with all of this hands?

Yes, I understand that it is advantageous for us to protect our small pockets on such boards, but still...
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Hard to imagine what a 24/12 is turning into a bluff here, but it's a $5 tournaent, he'll show up with something goofy once in a while like QJcc? IDK

It's probably a fold but I don't hate you if you call.

I do think it's a fold pre though.This hand has such poor visibility and nut potential I don't think we're losing much if anything by letting this go to a nit's UTG range.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Loose? You always call 1,5bb on bb, whatever you have. Ofc some situations you must be little more careful, mainly if you outta chips, but main thing is defend your blinds.


I'd be more inclined to call with few chips because we don't have to fold very often postflop.
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top