$.45 NLHE MTT: Bubble on a satellite

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tzuriel

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I really don't play satellites that much but thought I would start. I want to play higher buy in tourneys but my BR won't let me yet!

This one went really well. This is the literal bubble with 6 players to go and 5 get a ticket. I am pretty sure this was the right thing but with the structure, I started questioning myself. Should I be folding AJo here? ICMizer says to shove with any two here. Does that change with a satellite? I used a satellite configuration (1-5 get 20%) in ICMizer so I think it's set up correctly


Just an unlucky river? My luck always seems to run out badly w/ AJo. I am happy to have to put my money in as a 70% favorite but being the bubble boy is never fun! At least I have learned that I can play in these satellites. But I am sure I need to learn more about how to play them. I'll have to go read that thread.


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0+0 (6000.00BB)
BTN ($49200)
SB ($104502)
BB ($93735)
UTG ($112921)
HJ ($81004)
HERO ($93638)

Dealt to Hero: J A

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $93638 (allin), BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $87038

Flop ($192676): 9 4 7

Turn ($192676): 9 4 7 Q

River ($192676): 9 4 7 Q 3

BB shows: K J

BB wins: $192676
 
puzzlefish

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I don't see how this is worth jamming with 1 player to go, unless you're under 10bb, which doesn't seem the case here. The BTN player looks like the lowest stack and wasn't even involved.
 
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tzuriel

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I don't see how this is worth jamming with 1 player to go, unless you're under 10bb, which doesn't seem the case here. The BTN player looks like the lowest stack and wasn't even involved.

Hmm...I kind of get your point but the BB should really be folding here, I think. This is where I am not sure how to play in these satellites. Your point makes sense, though. I just know the V in the BB has been getting it in light a bunch of times already and figured I was way ahead of him. Which turned out to be correct. But that's the question. I know that if I just min-raise here, he is going to shove. And then I should fold? Maybe that's how to play a satellite? Really not sure.
 
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300HPGOD

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Your play is fine if this werent a satty bubbke and there was a somewhat small stack. Totally in agreement that BB should not be calling there lightly and not with KJ suited since they have the same stack as you and whoever loses is out. I highly doubt you or many others would jam K10 or less there and even if you were jamming 99 or 1010 BB would still be behind (only slightly though). So BB play here baffles me a little bit. Do they think you are taking advantage of that and jamming lightly? I guess that is what they are thinking but I dont like their play.

Getting back to your play though, I think you reasonably assume that most players are not going to call unless they have a strong hand meaning something like AJ suited +, 99+. In thinking that you are going to be behind any time you get called (normally, notwithstanding this hand lol) so you are really just trying to get the blinds when you do this. If that is the case why not raise but to a smaller amount? You have 15.5 BBs to start the hand you cancan easily bet 2-2.5BBs here and get a lot of folds to players who dont want to go out due to the bubble and you accomplish the same. If you get jammed on then you can fold with pretty good assurance it was a strong hand doing it and your fold was proper. Again, in a normal tournament I think your move is fine but on a satty bubble I wouldnt jam, I would just raise thinking most players will not be looking for a reason to play back at me and put their stack at risk.
 
puzzlefish

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Hmm...I kind of get your point but the BB should really be folding here, I think. This is where I am not sure how to play in these satellites. Your point makes sense, though. I just know the V in the BB has been getting it in light a bunch of times already and figured I was way ahead of him. Which turned out to be correct. But that's the question. I know that if I just min-raise here, he is going to shove. And then I should fold? Maybe that's how to play a satellite? Really not sure.
I think it depends a lot on the value of the satellite. Think about it this way. It's $0.45 and you have been playing for a long time. If winning a ticket from the satellite is important to you, you shouldn't be risking your stack unnecessarily right on the bubble. AJ is not a bad hand, but it is definitely not a very strong hand. You also have a decent stack and can afford to wait for one of the others to go out so you can take the ticket.

Now, look at it this way from another perspective. It's a $0.45 satellite and you have been playing for a long time. It's the bubble and the game is taking forever. The ticket isn't that important to you and you would rather just either get the ticket or not, as long as the game is over. Someone on your right jams on you from a position that would likely be exploiting your position, expecting you to fold. You have a suited hand and it isn't all that bad - still a premium hand although not an ace. You call out of spite.

The moral of the story is, leave the technical jamming plays out of the bubble of a satellite unless you don't really care about the outcome of the satellite and just want it to be over OR you are dangerously short-stacked and it is your only play.
 
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fundiver199

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The issue here is probably the stakes, and just how bad these players are. The NASH equilibrium has you jamming any two, but thats because, noone are really short, so you cant just fold your way to a sure ticket, and when you move all in, they are not supposed to call you, unless they have aces. Maybe BTN should call a bit wider, because he is the short stack, but even he should only call with very good hands.

However BB either did not know this or did not care, so he went on a suicide mission and called you with KJ. And in a satellite, where people are this bad, you are better off using a min-raising or even a limping strategy with a stack size of 15-16BB. It can basically be boiled down to the old mantra "dont try to bluff a calling station". As puzzlefish say, he might even have called you out of spite, because he think, moving all-in preflop ruins the game. Its quite common for some recreational players to think like this.
 
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tzuriel

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Yep. The more I think about, the more I realize I made an error. I really appreciate your responses and insights.
 
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fundiver199

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Yep. The more I think about, the more I realize I made an error. I really appreciate your responses and insights.

I think, its Daniel Negreanu, who once said something like "never rely on someone, you dont know, to be able to fold for your tournament life". These are pretty wise words :)
 
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eetenor

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I really don't play satellites that much but thought I would start. I want to play higher buy in tourneys but my BR won't let me yet!

This one went really well. This is the literal bubble with 6 players to go and 5 get a ticket. I am pretty sure this was the right thing but with the structure, I started questioning myself. Should I be folding AJo here? ICMizer says to shove with any two here. Does that change with a satellite? I used a satellite configuration (1-5 get 20%) in ICMizer so I think it's set up correctly


Just an unlucky river? My luck always seems to run out badly w/ AJo. I am happy to have to put my money in as a 70% favorite but being the bubble boy is never fun! At least I have learned that I can play in these satellites. But I am sure I need to learn more about how to play them. I'll have to go read that thread.


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0+0 (6000.00BB)
BTN ($49200)
SB ($104502)
BB ($93735)
UTG ($112921)
HJ ($81004)
HERO ($93638)

Dealt to Hero: J A

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $93638 (allin), BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $87038

Flop ($192676): 9 4 7

Turn ($192676): 9 4 7 Q

River ($192676): 9 4 7 Q 3

BB shows: K J

BB wins: $192676



Thank you for posting.

In a standard satty the best EV play is to shove or fold in this spot. However you are not playing vs players who fold correctly therefore folding is +EV here.
Why fold?
If the BB is going to play this badly and there is a short stack -we just have to let one of the two of them go broke or suckout on someone else. Letting other players battle for pots while risking the seat is a solid strategy in satties. So in this spot we can have a range of nothing.

The problem with raising is this same field does not fold to a raise and investing post flop with a marginal made hand is satty death.

I do like the idea of limping but again it is the post flop investment at this stage that can harm our chances of winning a seat. So if you did limp or min raise you really want to just show down your hand if it is not 2 pair+.

So for a new satty player I would advise fold here 100% after using all of your time allowed- not time bank. Stalling in this spot is +EV and the best satty players always use it.


Hope this helps
:):)
 
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fundiver199

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So for a new satty player I would advise fold here 100% after using all of your time allowed- not time bank. Stalling in this spot is +EV and the best satty players always use it.

Dont see any reason to stall here. With 6 players left, there is only 1 table running, and even if there were more, the tournament would play in hand for hand mode.
 
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eetenor

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Dont see any reason to stall here. With 6 players left, there is only 1 table running, and even if there were more, the tournament would play in hand for hand mode.


Thank you for responding

Stalling in this spot is a great meta game tactic used in satties. The idea is to play fewer hands and pay fewer antes when we know we do not want to play any hands at all. We want the blinds to get big so that one of our V makes a mistake and gets knocked out.

We are tied for 3rd place and the bigger stacks are not that big so two of our V will think they have to take a stand or be blinded out which is a non sattie thought process.
You only have to have 1 chip to win a sattie. In this spot we do not need to play a hand and especially no hands if we are new to satties.

As played the V that killed us thought they had to take a stand vs us all-in is an example of why we fold everything in this spot- AA loses as well. They will kill each other if we get out of the way but we do not want to pay a bunch of antes and the blinds so we stall.
We want our V to have to play for stacks when they play so we use the blind increases against them while we fold down to 1 chip waiting for them to kill each other.

Satties play 100% fold at times and when they do you should always be stalling to get those blind increases harming the small stacks and getting one of the medium stacks to make a meta game mistake like what happened in our hero's hand.

A tip for stalling in satties.
Use the satty lobby to see how best to time the blind increases. Your goal is to pay the blinds when they are lower then stall to force the short stack to pay a higher blind when it is their turn. We have great position on the table to do just that here.
We may also stall thru one blind increase as the second blind increase is even larger and puts even more pressure on the short stack. The meta game pressure is intense if they miss an entire round of play at one blind level.
The above could be done easily if the 2 big stacks start stalling as well- which they should be doing.

Hope this helps.


:):)
 
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tzuriel

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Great tips as usual! Thank you.
Thank you for responding

Stalling in this spot is a great meta game tactic used in satties. The idea is to play fewer hands and pay fewer antes when we know we do not want to play any hands at all. We want the blinds to get big so that one of our V makes a mistake and gets knocked out.

We are tied for 3rd place and the bigger stacks are not that big so two of our V will think they have to take a stand or be blinded out which is a non sattie thought process.
You only have to have 1 chip to win a sattie. In this spot we do not need to play a hand and especially no hands if we are new to satties.

As played the V that killed us thought they had to take a stand vs us all-in is an example of why we fold everything in this spot- AA loses as well. They will kill each other if we get out of the way but we do not want to pay a bunch of antes and the blinds so we stall.
We want our V to have to play for stacks when they play so we use the blind increases against them while we fold down to 1 chip waiting for them to kill each other.

Satties play 100% fold at times and when they do you should always be stalling to get those blind increases harming the small stacks and getting one of the medium stacks to make a meta game mistake like what happened in our hero's hand.

A tip for stalling in satties.
Use the satty lobby to see how best to time the blind increases. Your goal is to pay the blinds when they are lower then stall to force the short stack to pay a higher blind when it is their turn. We have great position on the table to do just that here.
We may also stall thru one blind increase as the second blind increase is even larger and puts even more pressure on the short stack. The meta game pressure is intense if they miss an entire round of play at one blind level.
The above could be done easily if the 2 big stacks start stalling as well- which they should be doing.

Hope this helps.


:):)
 
Vallet

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When you're ready to go all in on a preflop, it's always a risk. Maybe for a player on the big blind, this satellite is not so important. You should consider the option that the opponent can call with any cards and still win all in. The strategy should be simple in this case. We take the blinds or fold. The button will be forced to go all in to double its stack. It's inevitable. And all you have to do is wait for it.
 
Aleks75

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I really don't play satellites that much but thought I would start. I want to play higher buy in tourneys but my BR won't let me yet!

This one went really well. This is the literal bubble with 6 players to go and 5 get a ticket. I am pretty sure this was the right thing but with the structure, I started questioning myself. Should I be folding AJo here? ICMizer says to shove with any two here. Does that change with a satellite? I used a satellite configuration (1-5 get 20%) in ICMizer so I think it's set up correctly


Just an unlucky river? My luck always seems to run out badly w/ AJo. I am happy to have to put my money in as a 70% favorite but being the bubble boy is never fun! At least I have learned that I can play in these satellites. But I am sure I need to learn more about how to play them. I'll have to go read that thread.


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0+0 (6000.00BB)
BTN ($49200)
SB ($104502)
BB ($93735)
UTG ($112921)
HJ ($81004)
HERO ($93638)

Dealt to Hero: J A

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $93638 (allin), BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $87038

Flop ($192676): 9 4 7

Turn ($192676): 9 4 7 Q

River ($192676): 9 4 7 Q 3

BB shows: K J

BB wins: $192676

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello.:)
As I understand it).28.10.21, although I played in a freeroll for 2580 people, but the prizes were 5 tickets for $ 109.6 ((6 flew out, although the stack was 3 to the end. Lost with KK against 22((.
 
pandaboy

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In my mind first of all its bad call with kj at BB... but what is about AJ.... You had 2 people left with better count chips.... And they can have some hand to call.... And if we have middle chips, and one short player ... I think about to fold at this position
 
theANMATOR

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Although I agree with everyone in this thread who has provided responses (including the stalling), I play these small buyin sattys almost daily so I might have a little insight others may not.

In villains spot - as a short stack (sub 10bb) in the blinds - I will often call off with K/Q o, A/9s+ 77+ vs larger stacks jamming from CO or later. Reason? Larger stacks in LP are OFTEN attempting to bully with junk hands, and calling with marginal holdings is so often ahead of the larger stacks bully jamming range - it's really baffling.

Of course we have to know our opponents right - so there are several REGs who play in the sattys I frequent (0.45-2.20 range) so having detailed info on these regs is very useful.

Hopefully you were able to put a note on that player - so when you see him again you can play accordingly. :)

In this situation - me personally I'd limp/min-raise and fold to the shove. I'd call it off with A/J s,,,, maybe. I don't know - I may fold - this might be a 50/50 spot for me - since we still have that one player who has half of the blinds we currently have.
 
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