$4.4 NLHE MTT: 4/180 man. AAA flop with 22.

[MrEpic94]

no reads on villian, 9 hands against him, 11/11 so far. Pretty insubstantial info other than he isnt a spewtard.

Do you like my flop bet or does it just turn my hand into a bluff?
Is checking behind better and bluffing the turn a better line?
Whats your line from flop onwards?
As played fold the river?

PokerStars - $4+$0.40|25/50 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
LP: 3,238.00
Hero (CO): 4,750.00
BTN: 2,315.00
SB: 1,120.00
BB: 720.00
UTG: 2,290.00
UTG+1: 1,605.00
MP: 3,825.00
MP+1: 3,485.00
SB posts SB 25.00, BB posts BB 50.00
Pre Flop: (75.00) Hero has 2:heart: 2:spade:
fold, fold, fold, fold, LP raises to 150.00, Hero calls 150.00, fold, fold, fold
Flop: (375.00, 2 players) A:heart: A:spade: A:diamond:
LP checks, Hero bets 300.00, LP calls 300.00
Turn: (975.00, 2 players) 9:club:
LP checks, Hero checks
River: (975.00, 2 players) 3:club:
LP bets 780.00, fold
LP wins 975.00

 

[WiZZiM]

You will be called on that flop with just about anything, just check it back to the turn, otherwise i'd say you are just creating a huge pot on the turn and you still have no idea where you stand in the hand. There are very few turn cards we like here.

 

[MrEpic94]

You will be called on that flop with just about anything

so is ther eeven any point betting the flop, if thats the case?

 

[WiZZiM]

That's what i said above. I'd reccomend just checking the flop and seeing a turn.

I'd prefer to either fold or 3bet preflop in these spots, probably lean toward folding, not sure how profitable calling behind here would be. Depends how weak you're opponant is postflop i guess.

 

[MrEpic94]

I think we can pretty +EV set mine in this spot, were getting 20:1 so only need to get paid 1/2 times we hit our set.

Why 3 bet, wont that leave us in a horrible spot postflop?

 

[JMcCabe]

A small cbet on that flop isn't a bad idea, as you'll often be called by worse, be able to check behind on the turn to keep the pot small, and induce a bluff on the river.

If you check behind on the flop, what do you do when he leads the turn, which he will almost always do? If he fires again on the river?

I think you played it fine, though I probably cBet 200-225 on the flop, check behind on the turn and call a river bet, especially on that board.

EDIT: Sorry, not a cBet, but bet the flop IP, as you did...

 

[MrEpic94]

If you check behind on the flop, what do you do when he leads the turn, which he will almost always do? If he fires again on the river?

probably just fold. Pretty awkward spot if he bets the turn because we cant really call the turn and river without becoming super exploitable.

If the river bet was smaller I would have called it. But was just such a large river bet that i didnt think he would bet that much without a made hand.

 

[WiZZiM]

Unfortunately we are not cbetting. He raised preflop.

So we bet the flop when we know we are getting called like 99.99% of the time, then check back the turn for pot control? (showing huge signs of weakness)

I would Check back the flop, call a small turn bet then re-evaluate the river, the turn call may stop the guy betting the river, if he bets the river, grunt and fold.

If he checks the turn, now make bet at it, if called then we can just check back the river.

That's how i would do it anyways.

 

[MrEpic94]

Unfortunately we are not cbetting. He raised preflop.

So we bet the flop when we know we are getting called like 99.99% of the time, then check back the turn for pot control? (showing huge signs of weakness)

I would Check back the flop, call a small turn bet then re-evaluate the river, the turn call may stop the guy betting the river, if he bets the river, grunt and fold.

If he checks the turn, now make bet at it, if called then we can just check back the river.

That's how i would do it anyways.

thats what I was thinking before I posted this, my line looks so much like im bluffing the flop, it allows him to exploit me on the river after I check the turn back.

interesting to see JMcabe's thoughts when he realizes we are not c-betting.

 

[JMcCabe]

Thoughts are the same (hence the edit).

It "seems" exploitable, since your hand looks so weak, so quite often he will be firing with Kx or Qx hands here on the river.

Still agree with my line above for extracting the most value when you're ahead and minimizing your losses when you're behind.

Again, if you check behind on the flop, he's leading turn 90+% of the time and will probably fire again on the river.

A smaller bet on the flop gets you to the river with minimal investment (ie - you decide the size) and sets him up for a river bluff with the bulk of his air because you've played the hand so "weak" that you should never have a pocket pair here.

 

[c9h13no3]

Yeah, you need to realize that 99% of morons are going to slow play this flop. So when he checks to you, Ax and all pairs are still in his range. This is definitely not a good time to be feeling chipper about our hand.

 

[HipHopStoner]

I would say that he was floating with KQ type hands..

 

[Lofwyr]

I am going to ring in for the "check back the flop" side. You basically call any turn action within reason. Only a K/Q on the turn really make go grumble. And yes, fold to 2nd barrel on the river essentially always.

In some spots you might consider making the REALLY sick 'river raise', but that's only recommended against good opponents who are capable of making good lay downs (so probably none of them at these stakes). A flop check, turn call, river raise on this board basically goes "sup, i have Ax" in fish language. It's also one of those spots where you just feel like the king of the world...assuming he folds

 

[PNJs_dad]

I think check flop as well(how many players bet quads there?) and see what happens. Any decent pair would call a river raise unless you push and maybe still then. They only hands you beat on the river bet is KQ KJ type hands so river is a definite fold.