$3000 NLHE Full Ring: 88 on Q high board, too passive?

[HerpDerp]

Hey, im an improving player, trying to put the things i've learned into practice.
Came out of this hand on top but was un-confident all the way through. Can anyone help pick apart the play?

UTG: t1430 47.67 BBs
UTG+1: t1520 50.67 BBs
UTG+2: t1520 50.67 BBs
MP1: t1430 47.67 BBs
MP2: t1470 49 BBs
CO: t1470 49 BBs
Hero (BTN): t1650 55 BBs
SB: t1480 49.33 BBs
BB: t1530 51 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN with 8

8

6 folds, Hero raises to t90, SB calls t75, BB calls t60

Flop: (t270) Q

6

2

(3 players)
SB bets t90, BB calls t90, Hero calls t90

Turn: (t540) 4

(3 players)
SB bets t90, BB calls t90, Hero raises to t390, SB folds, BB folds

 

[Ubercroz]

Why are you playing $3,000nl if you are an improving player?

I guess I don't know why you are raising the turn. Could you explain what is going on or why you were doing what you were doing?

 

[HerpDerp]

Ha! No not 3000NL. i dont know how that got there.

I guess i felt i should have done it on the flop - I thought i ruled out the Q but lacked the confidence to raise it there.. the turn didn't help anyone so went for it there. Despite being later than i feel i should have done it, i question if that's the right play either way?

Should i be trying to build the pot or want to see folds in this situation?

 

[WiZZiM]

why not just call again? why are you ruling out a queen?

 

[jdeliverer]

Why are you playing $3,000nl if you are an improving player?

Everyone should strive to be an improving player

You overplayed your hand on the turn. You are only getting called by worse, and most of the time one of the two other players will have you beat. I'd much prefer a flat on the turn, as there's no reason to think both players are weak and would fold to a bluff raise (which is essentially what you are doing).

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Ha! No not 3000NL. i dont know how that got there.

I guess i felt i should have done it on the flop - I thought i ruled out the Q but lacked the confidence to raise it there.. the turn didn't help anyone so went for it there. Despite being later than i feel i should have done it, i question if that's the right play either way?

Should i be trying to build the pot or want to see folds in this situation?

I think you may have accidentally or instinctively stumbled upon an advanced play. Making your move on the turn is generally safer, and more successful. You have most of the info on how the board is going to run out (whether you are facing 1 or 2 or 3 overcards, whether an obvious draw got there etc.) AND the chasers and looky-loos have seen 4 cards and are more willing to fold their weak draws or 2 overs kind of hands to a good sized turn bet...

that said...I think you just got kinda lucky that neither had a good enough queen to call you.

I think your line was actually very good if you were facing just 1 player. But facing 2 players with a bet and a call, I would probably have folded my 88 on that flop.

Once you make it to the turn, you couldn't really ask for a better turn card except maybe an 8. So if you're still in the hand, and they both check to you and you DON'T bet the turn...you have to ask yourself why you even called on the flop? So as played, I like the turn bet. I think betting 290 would have gotten you the same info and same result though.

If either player calls your turn bet; then you must fold to any river bet, and you check back the river if they let you.

 

[HerpDerp]

Thanks for the response guys!

I see where all of you are coming from, it felt an odd hand at the time.

I think i had an instinct about the Q from early on - maybe just picking up on the plays of the guys on my left from earlier hands. The were no sets that's for sure, I think i expected to see a bigger response if one of them had hit it based on their playing styles at that point.

On this hand alone though i agree now, i was probably lucky to dodge a strong Q - who knows, there may have been one out there.

The absolute biggest problem i face in this situation is not wanting to slow play this type of hand. I can open efficiently now, play to people ranges etc. But when i hit a flop like this i get indecisive about how to play it (again probably why i delayed the raise). I dont see a fold early but i don't want to allow others to improve either. Approaching it aggressively at times does the job on the flop, but every now and again i misjudge it and take a big beat. My bankroll is hovering at a level now thanks to these type of hands. In my mind though... the flop / turn seems to be where the game lies in the lower stakes! It's a learning curve

Anyway, thanks for the input, some interesting things to think about.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

yeah, I had one yesterday with folds to my button. I raise. SB min 3bets me so I flat with position.

flop comes

he donks into me for the pot size, and I just know he is full of it, so I decide to call with middle pair and backdoor flush draw....but I also fully suspect that I am good.

turn is giving me 2nd pair and nut flush draw. he bets the pot again, and again I just know he is full of it, plus if he has the K I've got outs. So I jam it in for like 2x the pot and he calls with


Did I overcommit myself with my pair of 8s and a K on the board? you could probably say I did, but I just knew I was good.

....that is until he binked his on the river.

Now...many players could tell me to fold to the preflop 3 bet, fold to the flop bet, fold to the turn bet and I could have avoided all that...But I had a lot of history with this player and I just knew I was good.

sigh....I don't know. I think I liked my play in that hand and just got unlucky.

 

[horizon12]

This very lucky what blinds fold, donk bets in this board look strong i better fold in flop ( not waiting overcards, because sure will be donk bet in turn) or raise but this marginall vs 2 villain..

 

[byrnsiey330]

you normally don't want to get a big pot with a medium sized hand like middle pair. Just be content to call them down to the showdown, because you do have a little showdown value. If you hit trips, then yes raise. But reraising here causes you nothing but trouble.