$3 NLHE STT: AKo facing a shove on K high flop

[jbbb]

PokerStars - $3.11+$0.39|10/20 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: 3,030.00
MP+1: 1,490.00
CO: 1,470.00
Hero (BTN): 1,470.00
SB: 1,510.00
BB: 1,500.00
UTG: 1,590.00
UTG+1: 1,440.00

SB posts SB 10.00, BB posts BB 20.00

Pre Flop: (30.00) Hero has A♠ K♦

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 20.00, fold, Hero raises to 60.00, fold, BB calls 40.00, MP+1 calls 40.00

Flop: (190.00, 3 players) T♥ K♥ 9♣
BB bets 120.00, fold, Hero raises to 240.00, BB raises to 1,440.00 and is all-in, Hero??

Villian was pretty quick to shove. No stats as this was like the 3rd hand.
Oh yeah I meant to raise to 310 but my keyboard had num lock on so it only min raised.

 

[WiZZiM]

Whats the point of the raise if we're not getting it in here?

 

[jbbb]

To build the pot for later streets and eventually get it all in. If I keep betting and he keeps calling I assume I have the best hand. If i raise and he 3bets all in I assume my hand isn't good a lot of the time because he's shown such strength.

 

[TardisBlue]

To build the pot for later streets and eventually get it all in. If I keep betting and he keeps calling I assume I have the best hand. If i raise and he 3bets all in I assume my hand isn't good a lot of the time because he's shown such strength.

I call here.

Maybe he has a good draw, and is happy to stack off OOP with two cards to come - Qx or Jx of hearts for example.

It sounds like you are raising to "find out where you are", and I just don't like that play.

 

[Aldito]

Raise more pre with a limper

 

[Gunner57]

After raising more with the limper pre you should also re-raise more after the flop. A min re-raise is very weak on a board that has so many draws and is inviting for someone to come over the top... With your min re-raise an all in 3 bet is what you asked for.

The game is still so early so it is hard to know how each person plays yet so tough to know if villan is a donk or a player. Also, it is tough for him to know if you are donk or a player too.

I think if you call you are winning but he may be ahead with draws so you will need to dodge some cards to win, if he is made he could have a King, str8, or he has trip 9s or Ts. So I give you a little over 50/50 chance of winning here. I think a call here is good in that looking that the table and villans might be super aggressive looking to double up he is likely only on a draw (8 players already and what 1 or 2 hands down?).

I think a fold here is ok too. I would say fold only because you dont have enough info on villan and you played it incorrectly to start off with to know what he has. You can fold here and bet better in later hands and win when you have a better idea of what you are up against. Still left with 1100 chips and can play and take these fish to school later.

 

[jbbb]

I call here.

Maybe he has a good draw, and is happy to stack off OOP with two cards to come - Qx or Jx of hearts for example.

It sounds like you are raising to "find out where you are", and I just don't like that play.

Not atall. I'm raising for value because I think i'm ahead of villians donk betting range. However when he three-bets it indicates his hand is a lot stronger than I thought and now I am probably behind his 3-bet range.

Raise more pre with a limper

No point raising more pre IMO. AK plays pretty decent multiway. We're going to miss like 60% of the time anyway. If I raise 3x pre the c-bet can be a lot smaller even if I miss. If I raise like 5x pre the c-bet will have to be a lot bigger to hold any significance. And then we'll soon be playing for stacks.

After raising more with the limper pre you should also re-raise more after the flop. A min re-raise is very weak on a board that has so many draws and is inviting for someone to come over the top... With your min re-raise an all in 3 bet is what you asked for.

I did say this was a mistake... my keyboard was broken and I didn't realise but normally i'd make this about 310.

I think if you call you are winning but he may be ahead with draws so you will need to dodge some cards to win,

I'm ahead of all draws.

if he is made he could have a King, str8, or he has trip 9s or Ts. So I give you a little over 50/50 chance of winning here. I think a call here is good in that looking that the table and villans might be super aggressive looking to double up he is likely only on a draw (8 players already and what 1 or 2 hands down?).

I think a fold here is ok too. I would say fold only because you dont have enough info on villan and you played it incorrectly to start off with to know what he has. You can fold here and bet better in later hands and win when you have a better idea of what you are up against. Still left with 1100 chips and can play and take these fish to school later.

I agree with this on the most part. By folding I still have 800 chips and I think my edge over most the other players is sufficient to still get ITM a good amount of time.

 

[ben_rhyno]

To build the pot for later streets and eventually get it all in. If I keep betting and he keeps calling I assume I have the best hand. If i raise and he 3bets all in I assume my hand isn't good a lot of the time because he's shown such strength.

With relation to this point, there are not a lot of great cards for you except another K or an A. 9's, 10's, J's, Q's and even [h]'s are all scare cards, so if you raise this flop you should be willing to call off here aswell

 

[Poker Orifice]

Are TT, 99, AhQh,T9s,JhTd,T9, all within villain's range here? What else could they possibly have that we're crushing (given the action)?

 

[ben_rhyno]

Almost any two reasonable cards are in his range as the raise pre was so small, although I think maybe TT and AhQh would have been raised, so given the action, there's not a great deal we crush

 

[jbbb]

With relation to this point, there are not a lot of great cards for you except another K or an A. 9's, 10's, J's, Q's and even [h]'s are all scare cards, so if you raise this flop you should be willing to call off here aswell

Yeah good point Ben I didn't consider this at the time. If this is the case though i'm stumped as what to do...

calling just lets him draw cheaply if he hasn't hit already
raising and folding to 3-bet seems a bit stupid. If I won't call a 3-bet on the flop and most turn and river cards are scare cards i'm just building a pot i'm rarely going to win.
folding seems nitty

so whats your best line here?

 

[ben_rhyno]

I raise to about 110 pre, so the pots 340 on the flop, we have an SPR of ~4, so villain would lead for roughly 200, I would either just shove over the top and hope to be called by KQ/KJ even TJ/TQ, random flushdraws or just call and shove any non Q/J turn.
Thinking about this ^ though I don't think it's the optimal line. It's a tough spot and in the actual situation you're in, I call the shove after raising.

 

[RamdeeBen]

I'm not sure I call, when you raise it pre flop and he bets out the flop, you raise, and he shoves on you - I kind of think your beat.

Considering we was preflop aggressor, what could villian hope you going to stack with here? A,K?

Q,J is very feasible, along with a set. We got enough blinds to wait for a better spot. I'm not a big fan of stacking early with top pair, top kicker on that sort of board..it's very draw/flushy and easily hits your villians range of hands. Most of the time with the current board and action from villian, I think you're beat most times here.
I know most will disagree with this but with blinds at 20 are you always willing to call shoves with TPTK so so early on a board which quite frankly within someones calling range with value hands like Q,J, pocket pairs and two pairs. So easily beat at this point considering all the action in my honest opinion.

I put this guy on Q,J or at least two pair.

 

[jbbb]

I raise to about 110 pre

The problem with this is in micro's if a play is calling 60 with a certain range there going to call 110 with the same range. It just inflates the pot and doesn't really fold out any hands atall and makes it more tricky when we miss or when the above situation happens.

I put this guy on Q,J or at least two pair.

Agree with your post pretty much. Stacking with TPTK has a time and a place, however I didn't think this was one. At the time I put him on two pair K9,KT kind of hand but thought QJo was an outside possiblity.
As for him shoving with a flush draw... if I knew that i'd snap call as we're ahead, however I don't think most people in micros play their flush draws so aggressively.
Oh yeah, nice prediction

 

[ben_rhyno]

]The problem with this is in micro's if a play is calling 60 with a certain range there going to call 110 with the same range. It just inflates the pot and doesn't really fold out any hands atall and makes it more tricky when we miss or when the above situation happens.[/B]



Agree with your post pretty much. Stacking with TPTK has a time and a place, however I didn't think this was one. At the time I put him on two pair K9,KT kind of hand but thought QJo was an outside possiblity.
As for him shoving with a flush draw... if I knew that i'd snap call as we're ahead, however I don't think most people in micros play their flush draws so aggressively.
Oh yeah, nice prediction

Getting more chips in the pot with a premium hand in position is the name of the game