$3 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: $$3 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: AJo: Is shoving preflop the better option?

[ph_il]

$3 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: $$3 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: AJo: Is shoving preflop the better option?

I just had this hand in a $3 MTT on Carbon Poker. Unfortunately, they don't show all the stack sizes, but I can give you a rough estimate of the 2 stack sizes in the hand.

83703831-233 - Table 2
Hold'em No Limit
Wednesday 9 Sep 2015 11:58:54 PM
1. ICRAVETHIS
2. ohshootmybad ~89K
3. jutzmvp
4. seniorsnead ~80K (Dealer)
5. YogiLaw20
6. sshibar
7. numb3r1nunn3r
8. runbadplaybad
*** BLINDS ***
ICRAVETHIS posts ante 400
ohshootmybad posts ante 400
jutzmvp posts ante 400
seniorsnead posts ante 400
YogiLaw20 posts ante 400
sshibar posts ante 400
numb3r1nunn3r posts ante 400
runbadplaybad posts ante 400
YogiLaw20 posts small blind 2000.
sshibar posts big blind 4000.
*** PREFLOP ***
ohshootmybad Hole Cards: Ah,Jc
numb3r1nunn3r folds.
runbadplaybad folds.
ICRAVETHIS folds.
ohshootmybad raises 8,000.
jutzmvp folds.
seniorsnead calls 8,000.
YogiLaw20 folds.
sshibar folds.
*** POSTFLOP ***
Community Cards: 7h,Jh,7c
ohshootmybad bets 18,900.
seniorsnead is all in.
ohshootmybad calls 70,410.
...really easy call with my hand. I'm not really afraid of a 7 or an over pair when they just called preflop. I can see a lot of mid-pairs and draws making the same play.

My question is: Is shoving preflop with this hand and my stack a better strategy? I ask because my stack is only 22BBs deep and my standard raise is costing me almost 10% of my stack. So, I really don't want to see flops where I might be behind and have to check/fold. Or get caught in a situation where I'm c-betting a dry board and get shoved into.

Also, if I get re-raised, I'm in a fold/shove situation with no fold equity and if I'm shoved into, I'm probably calling this and hoping to be in a flip situation. So, if I'm really shoving/calling shoves, I should be the first one in, right? At least that increases my chances of winning the pot if my opponent folds. There's already 9.6K in the pot already, so picking that up uncontested is a ~10%+ boost to my stack.

Or is shoving 20+ BBs too spewy? I feel like I'd easily do it with AK, JJ+, but I always get mixed up when playing hands like A10s, AJo with 20 BBs. I'm around the 10th/15 players left, so not exactly sitting comfortable but not too low. However I feel like I make most of my mistakes around the 20BB-30BB stack sizes. Anything less/more and I can play accordingly.

Suggestions?

 

[ph_il]

No idea why the title came out that way...

 

[horizon12]

Only min-raise because all weak and marginal hands like KJo+ QTs JTs AT 44 will fold on this shove with your size stack and you are only going to get called by better hands the majority of the time.

Another point, if after you very more players with short stacks you can shove this hand, but if blinds have over 20+ BBs you need only a min-raise.
In a nutshell, you need to look the average size of the stack at the table and table dynamic, then evaluate to shove it or not to shove.

 

[teepack]

I think you played it fine. Where were you in the tourney? Had you cracked the bubble?

 

[ph_il]

Yeah, bubble money bubble cracked around 54 players. We were down to 15 players.

 

[Mug]

The only way I would have played this hand differently likely had no bearing on your postflop play.

A lot will depend on stack sizes from those left to act. If I can jam on some short stacks and induce mistakes I am likely to do so, as long as I am not in danger of crippling myself. If there are other large stacks left to act I think the better opening raise would be 2.5-3x so 10-12k. In this situation I am usually not jamming 20+BB from the hijack as I think you are more likely only to be called by mostly better hands, AQ+, TT+. With a full table of antes there is just too many chips on the table after your min raise (17,200) to allow a someone with position on you to come along for cheap, or the blinds,, especially the BB with ATC. If one or both of the blinds come along at the price you offer, it leaves you in a position where you really don't know where you stand if you miss the flop. Then with position you pretty much are forced to cbet and this could be spewy without being able to put them on a range of hands. Or if say the BB donks the flop for only 12k, are you going to float, reraise, or fold? It just leaves too many opportunities for a large pot to be stolen from you. The price to reduce the chances of these scenarios from happening is minimal compared to the cost of losing the pot postflop.

I think you could see 3bets from a wider range with only a min raise, which could be a positive, but it puts you in a tricky situation regardless. With a the slightly larger .5-1BB opening raise, I think you will gain a little more info if a tighter opponent does come over the top as it should cost them substantially more to make the raise. I just don't think I am automatically calling a 3bet jam here. If I do get 3bet I am finding a fold against certain opponents some of the time, depending on the the action in previous hands and history with the player.

Other than the opening raise sizing, I think you played it as good as it can be played. You pretty much aren't running into QQ+ here, ever. Your 3/4 bet looks like a bet from someone who wants to win the pot right then and there. I think it invites 88-TT to make a mistake and come over the top along with weaker Js.