$3.50 NLHE STT: What can/should we shove early in this 45 man?

[JohnBoyWWFC]

So this is a few levels into a 45man, this guy is a random, running 0/0 over 12 hands so no reads really. What hands would you guys get it in with once he makes such a tiny min bet?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.5 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (9 handed) - Converted at http://www.handhistoryconverter.com

MP2 (t1460)
MP3 (t3590)
CO (t1605)
Button (t2875)
Hero (SB) (t2685)
BB (t1280)
UTG (t1400)
UTG+1 (t1015)
MP1 (t2605)

Hero's M: 11.93

Preflop: Hero is SB with X

, X

UTG calls t150, 1 fold, MP1 bets t300, MP2 calls t300, 3 folds, Hero raises to t695, 2 folds, MP1 raises to t1090, MP2 calls t790, Hero ???

 

[The Messiah]

Neither player here is folding consid their stack sizes so my GII range is going to be tighter than what it would be for 20bigs in this pos against 2 unknowns.
Consid they are unknowns I'm ok with folding <AQ/JJ, all better I'm pretty happy getting it in.
Will have 15 bigs if we fold which is plenty to work with, hence I'm tighter than usual in a similar situation. Would ofc widen my calling range if he 4bet jammed and the other villain folded but just giving my opinion as played.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Obviously this guy must be really strong, he suggest he's never folding.

I'd probs be getting in A,Q+ TT+ vs a small committing raise like this.

Also; I assume you have to be strong here and aren't 3betting lighter than A,Q+ TT+ in this spot? If you are then with extra dead money in the pot, if you're holding 77+/A,J+ I think we have to also get those hands in.

ps:Are we even factoring in the other short stack here john? I'm guessing he's bad just with flatting <10bbs vs guys raise pre and we're just concentrating on the nit?

 

[doomasiggy]

probs AKs+/QQ+. The min 4-bet looks really strong. As does MP2's flat.

 

[KerouacsDog]

same as what dooms said.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Flatter is terrible, just assume he's dead money but he does throw a weird variable. He was like 46/3 or something, could have 67s, could have QQ, who knows. Ram you say AQ+ and TT+, I think that's very wide. Why so wide?

 

[the lab man]

I see this play often in latter stages of sngs, where early position player min bets and re-raises and often has KK or AA. My calling range narrows to A/K and QQ+

 

[RamdeeBen]

Flatter is terrible, just assume he's dead money but he does throw a weird variable. He was like 46/3 or something, could have 67s, could have QQ, who knows. Ram you say AQ+ and TT+, I think that's very wide. Why so wide?

Why do you think it's really that wide? Doesn't A,Q/TT+ drop into like the absolute top of our range to be 3betting/getting it in here?

Also as you are both 17bb and there is a caller already in the pot; along with the fact TT+ A,Q+ is like top of our range I don't think you can 3bet a nit with the intention of folding based on stack sizes/+dead money. I'd much rather just fold to start with.

Likely hood is villians opening range here is tight(then again, 11 hands isn't exactly huge), but likely <8% of hands and once you 3bet in this spot with hands like TT/A,Q+, I just don't think it's ever going to be good to then fold. 3bet/folding 17bb deep with dead money to a nit with the to of our range has to be -EV surely?


I don't think just over an 11 hand sample size that he's only 4betting here with QQ+/A,K, even if his 4bet sizing does look very strong.

Even if we give him the absolute top 3% of his range for 4betting here; we're only ever going to be 50/50 in this spot at worse and with the dead money in the pot already it's going to be +EV to get TT/A,Q in here isnt it or am I off?


I also don't think it's ever going to be that bad *In general* to get TT+/A,Q+ in vs nits when we have a ton of dead money is going to be hugely bad.