$3.40 NLHE STT Turbo: 66 on paired flop, line check?

[cjatud2012]

Small sample, both villains are on fishy side.

PokerStars - $3+$0.40|25/50 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): 1,455.00
UTG: 1,415.00
UTG+1: 1,235.00
MP: 2,793.00
MP+1: 1,950.00
CO: 1,857.00
BTN: 1,615.00
SB: 1,180.00

SB posts SB 25.00, Hero posts BB 50.00

Pre Flop: (75.00) Hero has 6:heart: 6:club:

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls 50.00, SB calls 25.00, Hero checks

Flop: (150.00, 3 players) 4:diamond: J:diamond: J:heart:
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 100.00, fold,

Spoiler

Hero calls 100.00

Turn: (350.00, 2 players) 3:spade:
Hero checks, BTN bets 150.00,

Spoiler

Hero calls 150.00

River: (650.00, 2 players) A:heart:
Hero checks, BTN bets 350.00,

Spoiler

fold

BTN wins 650.00

 

[ChuckTs]

c/c is basically like the worst line to take given your opponent is a fish, and therefore more likely to be passive, and therefore less likely to bluff here and more likely to be valuebetting. He's also more likely to call with worse hands than he is to bet them.

Just bet flop and be fine with taking it down when they fold, and try to get to showdown/make thin barrel on turns like the 3s when they call.

 

[cjatud2012]

Ah okay that makes sense. Against, what type of opponent would a c/c line be better, if any?

 

[ChuckTs]

Basically the opposite - those more likely to bluff when ch to rather than call if bet into. If he's not going to call with ATo but will bet it when checked to, then clearly c/c would be a better line in that situation.

In general I wouldn't advocate c/c though since passivity (ie calldown-ivity ) is much more predictable than aggression and the different levels of aggression, ie how many times villain will bet his air when ch to. We know the average $3 tourney player will call somewhat often with overs/A-high/FDs etc, but isn't guaranteed to bet them when checked to. When we get the read that he's bluffy and doesn't call too often, then bluffcatching is more attractive.

This is just in general a crappy board/hand type to try to bluffcatch with too - you see an overcard on just about every turn and there are plenty of diamonds to shittify your equity.

 

[PattyR]

how do u put more than 1 spoiler in a post dude...too cool...saw marg do it like 190 times in one post....

 

[Bwammo]

Yeah I definitely agree with chuck on this one, gotta bet out vs your typical passive fish because the turn will always suck ass.

An added possibility against an aggro player is to toss out a check raise because even a suicidal bluffer is going to be deathly afraid of you having a J and it keeps us from having to play a turn or river.

 

[ChuckTs]

+1 to the c/r just to take it down.

I'd take everything I say about tourneys with a grain of salt since I never play them, but if Bwammo says it's fine it probably is

 

[cjatud2012]

I would ask if we're afraid that we're turning our hand into a bluff by c/r-ing, but I guess being out of position it's not like there's a much better line against an aggro opponent, is there

(that's why we play IP folks!)

how do u put more than 1 spoiler in a post dude...too cool...saw marg do it like 190 times in one post....

lol you mean like this one? https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...ary-cash-chat-thread-189637/post-1655578.html

 

[PattyR]

yea thats pretty much the example im talking about lol

 

[ChuckTs]

I would ask if we're afraid that we're turning our hand into a bluff by c/r-ing, but I guess being out of position it's not like there's a much better line against an aggro opponent, is there

(that's why we play IP folks!)



lol you mean like this one? https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...ary-cash-chat-thread-189637/post-1655578.html

If we're talking deep-stacked cash games, c/r is a bit retarded without some very strong reads that villain either folds better or continues with worse a lot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the third reason for betting is much more important since PSRs are so much smaller. Don't fret if you don't really fold out better or get called by worse very often - taking down the pot is more than enough incentive to c/r. The only difference between doing this with 66 and air is that 66 will sometimes get to showdown and be best vs busted draws/4x/whatever.

 

[cjatud2012]

If we're talking deep-stacked cash games, c/r is a bit retarded without some very strong reads that villain either folds better or continues with worse a lot.

Right, I think that's what I was trying to say... Or was it? Hang on, lol.

I would ask if we're afraid that we're turning our hand into a bluff by c/r-ing

So yeah, I guess the answer to that question is yes based on what you said. But yeah, that leads into your next part...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the third reason for betting is much more important since PSRs are so much smaller. Don't fret if you don't really fold out better or get called by worse very often - taking down the pot is more than enough incentive to c/r. The only difference between doing this with 66 and air is that 66 will sometimes get to showdown and be best vs busted draws/4x/whatever.

Okay this makes a ton of sense now, woot.

 

[ChuckTs]

I was just listing the two first reasons for betting with respect to our flop raise. It can theoretically be either a bluff or a valuebet, but in practice nobody ever folds 77 or better here, and this is more of a thin value raise/we're happy to take the pot down vs his bluffs.

 

[cjatud2012]

So to reiterate then, the equity we gain by just taking it here, i.e. reason 3, is far greater than any thin value we would squeeze out from reasons 1 and 2?

 

[ChuckTs]

Wrote out a long but redundant post.

In short: Yes.