$3.30 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Unsuited broadway in position getting absurd price

[theANMATOR]

We are in ITM in a $3.30 3000gtd event. Roughly 150 players remain and I have a solid stack of 98k - about 61bb Average stack is about 64k, 40bb.

Blinds are 800/1600 Ante?


UTG opens to 2.1bb. Stack size 39bb.
MP1 calls 2.1bb. Stack size 40bb.
HJ calls 2.1bb. Stack size 20bb.
CO calls 2.1bb. Stack size 48bb.

I'm sitting on the button with
It might be a nitty play - but I will normally fold this hand vs early position players, and a lot of action. However in this spot - I figured I could risk 2.1bb.
The players left to act were both relative short stacks compared to everyone else already VPIPing into this hand, and I had position so risking 2.1bb was trivial to me here. Easy to fold to a short stack shove and a call form one of the other players - or consider making a loose call to a short stack jam if everyone else folded.

SB folds, and BB decided to make this call also 2.1bb - he has 13bb remaining after making the call.

Pot size 13.64bb
Flop

BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, HJ checks,CO bets 1bb. Hmmm decision here?
I'm normally not one to bet to "see where I'm at". And it looks to me like the CO here is doing exactly that. If I call here - I could potentially face a re-raise from one of the EP opponents. If BB back jams here - it is an easy fold for me if anyone else calls, and possibly a 50/50 decision if everyone else folds.

I have all options available to me here - and at this very moment - I do not think folding is one of the smart/valuable options to choose.

I could also raise here - the pot is 13bb+ so putting in a legitimate bet - rather than that one bb - nonsense seems like a solid play. I'm thinking 4.95bb up to 6.5bb would be a good bet. But - what are we hoping to get here. Everyone folds? The BB jams and everyone folds? BB folds and we get one or more callers?
BB folds and we get re-raised?
This was one of those moments were I used all my allotted decision time - and 10+ seconds of my time bank.

What would call this raise if we decide to raise? Ax, any 2 diamonds, certainly J/T is calling. A better 2 pair obviously.

What to do?

 

[theANMATOR]

Since this board was so wet and I was not closing the action I decided to take the cautious route here in this spot and just call the 1bb "feeler" bet from the CO.

I can get away if action gets overly aggressive behind me, so calling here for 1bb, although completely passive in my mind, as is the whimpy 1bb bet from CO, was the safest route.

BB folds, UTG calls 1bb, MP1 folds and HJ folds.

3 players to the turn. Pot size is 16.64.

Turn comes a brick and now UTG decides to wake up here and bets out 7.55bb.
CO folds and I have another pretty easy decision - I think. If I make this call I will still have above average stack size, and I can make a tight fold if required on the river.

And what range can we put UTG villain on?
I'm unfamiliar with UTG player, so for this reason - and the fact I have no more than 30 hands on him and his numbers up to this point are totally innocuous, I'm placing him in the category of a standard recreational player.

He probably has an Ace. A/K might take this line, but it seems kind of a passive line if he has that hand. Maybe he's scared of the diamonds. I see a lot of players who are mortified of all draws. They will check down to the river before committing chips to any pot, to make sure they do not get drawn out on. Even if they are holding 2 pair or better.

It's unlikely he has J/T however I'm not ruling it out in this field.

So I range this opponent on a pretty tight range. I don't see JJs making this turn bet, and I don't see much else he could be betting here because I block a lot of combos I would consider giving him. Possibly AAs, but that thought never crossed my mind in this hand.


So I make the call of 7.55bb, being optimistic about where I'm at, but cautious about the upcoming street and action from this opponent.

On to the river, and I'll update this thread after giving the community time to weigh in.

 

[eetenor]

We are in ITM in a $3.30 3000gtd event. Roughly 150 players remain and I have a solid stack of 98k - about 61bb Average stack is about 64k, 40bb.

Blinds are 800/1600 Ante?


UTG opens to 2.1bb. Stack size 39bb.
MP1 calls 2.1bb. Stack size 40bb.
HJ calls 2.1bb. Stack size 20bb.
CO calls 2.1bb. Stack size 48bb.

I'm sitting on the button with
It might be a nitty play - but I will normally fold this hand vs early position players, and a lot of action. However in this spot - I figured I could risk 2.1bb.
The players left to act were both relative short stacks compared to everyone else already VPIPing into this hand, and I had position so risking 2.1bb was trivial to me here. Easy to fold to a short stack shove and a call form one of the other players - or consider making a loose call to a short stack jam if everyone else folded.

SB folds, and BB decided to make this call also 2.1bb - he has 13bb remaining after making the call.

Pot size 13.64bb
Flop

BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, HJ checks,CO bets 1bb. Hmmm decision here?
I'm normally not one to bet to "see where I'm at". And it looks to me like the CO here is doing exactly that. If I call here - I could potentially face a re-raise from one of the EP opponents. If BB back jams here - it is an easy fold for me if anyone else calls, and possibly a 50/50 decision if everyone else folds.

I have all options available to me here - and at this very moment - I do not think folding is one of the smart/valuable options to choose.

I could also raise here - the pot is 13bb+ so putting in a legitimate bet - rather than that one bb - nonsense seems like a solid play. I'm thinking 4.95bb up to 6.5bb would be a good bet. But - what are we hoping to get here. Everyone folds? The BB jams and everyone folds? BB folds and we get one or more callers?
BB folds and we get re-raised?
This was one of those moments were I used all my allotted decision time - and 10+ seconds of my time bank.

What would call this raise if we decide to raise? Ax, any 2 diamonds, certainly J/T is calling. A better 2 pair obviously.

What to do?

Thank you for posting

All good thoughts here and your play on the flop for the reasons you outline is fine.

Taking the pot on the flop has a lot of value here we want to protect our stack size. The value of protecting may be even greater than getting calls on this ugly a board.

The V here play more straight forwardly to a raise so Utg’s actions are clearer. Which means we will most often be able to pot control the turn which means we save 3bb to get to the river or can make a tight fold based on V response to our raise.

Why pot control turn? As described by you above UTG will often fear the JT and just call the AK AQ even QQ AA KK as well as hands we are getting value from. Again taking the pot here is a good result but when called our 2 pair becomes a marginal made hand not a strong hand.
Information raises have their place versus V that respond as these V will in this spot.

Hope this helps

 

[eetenor]

Since this board was so wet and I was not closing the action I decided to take the cautious route here in this spot and just call the 1bb "feeler" bet from the CO.

I can get away if action gets overly aggressive behind me, so calling here for 1bb, although completely passive in my mind, as is the whimpy 1bb bet from CO, was the safest route.

BB folds, UTG calls 1bb, MP1 folds and HJ folds.

3 players to the turn. Pot size is 16.64.

Turn comes a brick and now UTG decides to wake up here and bets out 7.55bb.
CO folds and I have another pretty easy decision - I think. If I make this call I will still have above average stack size, and I can make a tight fold if required on the river.

And what range can we put UTG villain on?
I'm unfamiliar with UTG player, so for this reason - and the fact I have no more than 30 hands on him and his numbers up to this point are totally innocuous, I'm placing him in the category of a standard recreational player.

He probably has an Ace. A/K might take this line, but it seems kind of a passive line if he has that hand. Maybe he's scared of the diamonds. I see a lot of players who are mortified of all draws. They will check down to the river before committing chips to any pot, to make sure they do not get drawn out on. Even if they are holding 2 pair or better.

It's unlikely he has J/T however I'm not ruling it out in this field.

So I range this opponent on a pretty tight range. I don't see JJs making this turn bet, and I don't see much else he could be betting here because I block a lot of combos I would consider giving him. Possibly AAs, but that thought never crossed my mind in this hand.


So I make the call of 7.55bb, being optimistic about where I'm at, but cautious about the upcoming street and action from this opponent.

On to the river, and I'll update this thread after giving the community time to weigh in.

Thank you for posting

As you stated before V at this level fear made hands JT is still a straight yet this V leads the turn for a value sizing why?

What hands that we are ahead of think they are value betting into 2 players OOP?
Do your V blocker bet this size?

How do we make a good river decision now that UTG has implied so much strength on turn?
Based on your earlier comment of how your V play vs flush draws.

A standard half pot river bet will be 15bb a bluff or value bet will be 22bb, how often will this V check back river not lead top of range?
Might we as played exploit fold the turn based on a standard UTG’s lead range for this sizing?

Can we turn our hand into a bluff on the river vs this V if they check river? Was that part of your plan when you called?
Standard V go broke on this river with 2 pair + very frequently does that apply to this V?


Hope this helps

 

[theANMATOR]

Thank you for posting

As you stated before V at this level fear made hands JT is still a straight yet this V leads the turn for a value sizing why?

What hands that we are ahead of think they are value betting into 2 players OOP?
Do your V blocker bet this size?

How do we make a good river decision now that UTG has implied so much strength on turn?
Based on your earlier comment of how your V play vs flush draws.

A standard half pot river bet will be 15bb a bluff or value bet will be 22bb, how often will this V check back river not lead top of range?
Might we as played exploit fold the turn based on a standard UTG’s lead range for this sizing?

Can we turn our hand into a bluff on the river vs this V if they check river? Was that part of your plan when you called?
Standard V go broke on this river with 2 pair + very frequently does that apply to this V?


Hope this helps

Thank you for your input E. As always you make me think even deeper than I usually am.

yet this V leads the turn for a value sizing why
I think - maybe - this villain who might be scared of the diamonds - is willing to bet his strong but not made hand. To build a pot, in hopes that his strong but not made hand become made - or hold up on the river.

What hands that we are ahead of think they are value betting into 2 players OOP?
A single paired Ace is what I thought he might have A/T A/J, though I also thought he might also have a scared A/K.

Do your V blocker bet this size?
Normally no - however a lot of villains in the player pool ALSO think a paired Ace is the nuts. And can't fold a paired Ace.

Might we as played exploit fold the turn based on a standard UTG’s lead range for this sizing?
I considered this - but after figuring how much I had behind - I wanted to make this call and see a river.

Can we turn our hand into a bluff on the river vs this V if they check river? Was that part of your plan when you called?
No - my plan was to fold the river depending on the runout and the villains bet sizing.

 

[theANMATOR]

RRRIIIIIVVVVVEEEERR!!!!!!

So we make it to the river with middle 2 pair on a pretty wet board.

Why are we here?
1. I got a great price to call preflop, and I have an above average stack size.
2. Main villain played the flop passively, on a board that I would think hits him right square in the UTG opening range.
3. I have no info on the villain so I'm labeling him as a generic/standard recreational player. Because I put him in this category, he is neither a complete fish, nor is he any type of crusher. So this passive play on the flop could mean anything. He might be slow-playing a monster, or he could be playing passive because he's actually scared of the board.

The board is
Pot size is 31.75 bb
UTG Villains stack is 30.45bb
And I have 50.35bb holding on the button.

The river is oh boy. Well - this is a good card and a bad card, a flush card might have scared off villain, or he might have paid off with a flush, at least the straight flush didn't come in!!

Villain checks - and in retrospect - I think checking behind in this spot is the correct play. But I was convinced in my head from this ONE single hand only, that villain was a loose passive player, and I wanted to get more value out of him.
However in the off chance this player is better than I'm guessing he is I decided to bet small - for two reasons. 1 - I wanted this to look like a blocker bet - something that I think a player with only one pair would do, and I also wanted to make my decision pretty easy for me - if villain happened to jam over me, I will have lost pretty much the minimum amount I'm willing to loose up to this point.

So I decided to bet the same amount that he bet on the turn 7.55 bb.
And villain did an insta-minbet-click back raise to 15.1 bb.

So this is obviously polarized, he either has a nutted hand - or he has a weak hand. From my (still rookie in my mind) experience - this insta min-raise click back is hardly ever the nuts, nor is it complete air - except from the terrible fishy players. This is entirely my perspective from the player pool I play in.

I thought about it for a little bit and pretty much ranged him to A/K or a paired Ace with a junk kicker. So 2 pair with the K on the board as his kicker.

I finally decided to make the call fully expecting villain to turn over AA or A/K - instead he turns over


:dontknow:

 

[Alizona]

So I decided to bet the same amount that he bet on the turn 7.55 bb.
And villain did an insta-minbet-click back raise to 15.1 bb.

So this is obviously polarized, he either has a nutted hand - or he has a weak hand.

:dontknow:

You left out one possibility my friend - MISCLICK, especially when it is instant min-raise.

Speaking from my own experience, I am often doing much more than just playing poker. Sometimes I'm playing another game entirely, a video game in fullscreen mode. Sometimes I'm surfing the internet with a web browser that covers the table.
And sometimes... the poker table pops up just at the exact wrong instant, and sadly for me, I was just clicking on the "other screen" at the exact location where the RAISE button is. When this happens, guess what you see? An instant min-raise.

Of course we don't know what was in this player's mind here, your two possibilities are certainly more likely... but I think nutted hands aren't min-raising given stack size, they would almost certainly just shove all-in, and would take a bit of time to make you think it's just a bluff attempt. And a bluff attempt could instant min-click it back, but I almost never see such a thing at my micro- and low-level entry. If this is a 25K I'm guessing its like the Wednesday 16.50 on ACR which isn't exactly a donkfest, its filled with lots of regs, and also, more importantly for my answer... it has a 5-hour-long (agonizingly long LOL) late registration, which is precisely why I'm web surfing and doing everything possible to make those 5 hours pass by with less boredom.

Edit: re-reading, I have no idea why I saw '25K tournament' in your post the first time, so ignore that part if incorrect, it's really irrelevant to the discussion.

So my guess here is a misclick. I've done it myself too many times to admit. hahaha

And P.S. - thanks so much for your feedback in the other ACR thread. You provided some great confirmation of the issue which up until your input, I really didn't have enough of that. Best wishes at the tables!!

 

[theANMATOR]

You left out one possibility my friend - MISCLICK, especially when it is instant min-raise.

Speaking from my own experience, I am often doing much more than just playing poker. Sometimes I'm playing another game entirely, a video game in fullscreen mode. Sometimes I'm surfing the internet with a web browser that covers the table.
And sometimes... the poker table pops up just at the exact wrong instant, and sadly for me, I was just clicking on the "other screen" at the exact location where the RAISE button is. When this happens, guess what you see? An instant min-raise.

Of course we don't know what was in this player's mind here, your two possibilities are certainly more likely... but I think nutted hands aren't min-raising given stack size, they would almost certainly just shove all-in, and would take a bit of time to make you think it's just a bluff attempt. And a bluff attempt could instant min-click it back, but I almost never see such a thing at my micro- and low-level entry. If this is a 25K I'm guessing its like the Wednesday 16.50 on ACR which isn't exactly a donkfest, its filled with lots of regs, and also, more importantly for my answer... it has a 5-hour-long (agonizingly long LOL) late registration, which is precisely why I'm web surfing and doing everything possible to make those 5 hours pass by with less boredom.

Edit: re-reading, I have no idea why I saw '25K tournament' in your post the first time, so ignore that part if incorrect, it's really irrelevant to the discussion.

So my guess here is a misclick. I've done it myself too many times to admit. hahaha

And P.S. - thanks so much for your feedback in the other ACR thread. You provided some great confirmation of the issue which up until your input, I really didn't have enough of that. Best wishes at the tables!!

LOL thats true - I didn't think about that - accidental click back. But USUALLY this play is polarizing, it's either total nuts or - something weak, like a paired ace.