$3.30 NLHE MTT: $3.30 NLHE MTT: Set made on flop with straight possibility. Fold after action?

[KKillerss]

$3.30 NLHE MTT: $3.30 NLHE MTT: Set made on flop with straight possibility. Fold after action?

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 30/60 - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG (Hero): 3,926 (65 bb)
MP: 2,869 (48 bb)
MP+1: 2,125 (35 bb)
CO: 3,043 (51 bb)
BU: 1,913 (32 bb)
SB: 732 (12 bb)
BB: 3,095 (52 bb)

Pre-Flop: (90) Hero is UTG with 9♦ 9♠
Hero raises to 150, 2 players fold, CO calls 150, 2 players fold, BB calls 90

Flop: (480) K♦ J♣ 9♣ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 240, BB raises to 720, Hero calls 720, CO calls 480

Turn: (2,640) 5♥ (3 players)
BB bets 2,225 (all-in),

Spoiler

Hero raises to 3,056 (all-in), CO folds

River: (7,090) A♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 7,090

Showdown:
UTG (Hero) shows 9♦ 9♠ (three of a kind, Nines)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 55%, Flop: 35%, Turn: 23%, River: 0%)

BB shows Q♥ T♣ (a straight, Ten to Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 45%, Flop: 65%, Turn: 77%, River: 100%)

BB wins 7,090

Well, tournament was going well, playing pretty standard with some nice preflop cards that connected wel with the flop, only one semi-bluff that was ok, to the point I was becoming to get little action. 99 isnt a hand that I would open raise UTG usually but the table was a bit tight and the blinds were beggining to bite.

F- I expected AA,KK and JJ to have been reraised before. Put the CC friend on AK of clubs or KJ. With a VPIP of 12 I didnt see the BB putting money on Q10 on that spot, with an early raise from the chip leader that was playing reasonably tight.
Check raise was called by the CO too, maybe on a flush draw.

T - as said, thought Q10 wouldnt be in play most of the time, and was kind of sure I was againt AcKc.
Was I dellusional, or was kind of a standard coin flip?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
This is a mandatory open, and if you dont always do this, you are playing much to tight. With only 7 people on the table and relatively deep stacks, at least 66 is also an open. The smaller pairs are more depending on your play style and table dynamics. It would not be terrible to open them, but personally I probably fold 22-55 here most of the time.

Flop
Checking here can be ok, if your intention is to go for a check-raise, and you think, CO is going to bet a lot. But it is a risky move, so personally I probably just make a standard C-bet and go from there. On a board this wet I probably go on the larger side of the spectrum and make it 300 into 480. I want to charge all those draws, they can have, to stick around.

You do check however, and CO does bet for you, and now BB check-raise. BB can certainly have all 16 combos of QT, since its a totally standard defend. But he can have a bunch of other hands as well including two pair, pair + gutshot or flushdraws, that he would also check-raise on the flop. And of the flop you have a lot of equity against a straight or flush, when you have a set.

So I think, you need to just jam the flop as played. When you just call, you invite CO to stay in the hand as well, and with so many draws out there, thats not really ideal. If he has the QT, you just need to get lucky and suck out on him. The set has around 36-37% equity, if I remember correctly, so you are not that much of a dog.

Turn
Pretty much as large a brick, as we could get, and you just cant fold here. Yes you have less equity against QT now with only one card to come, and his range is probably also a bit stronger, when he goes for the rest of it, but we still cant put him on only the nuts. And I dont think, we ever need to worry about KK or JJ, because those hands would almost always be squeezed preflop. So its almost better to have 99 here than KK or JJ, because it allow him to have all the possible combos of hands like KQ, KJ, KT etc.

Conclusion
So he did in fact flop a straight, and you failed to get there, and yes that sucks. It is however just a standard cooler, and those are part of poker. Yesterday near the bubble in a 16,5$ MTT, I had around 20BB and first folded my BB with a hand, I would normally defend, because the open came from the chip leader sitting with more than 100BB. Next hand however he opened again, and now I looked down at AQo, and bubble or no bubble, this is just a rejam all day. Especially against a chip leader, who might be trying to bully the table near the bubble. So I did go for it, he snap called me with AA, and I was out.

But this is ok, because I will rather make a play, which I know is long term profitable, and sit there and play scared poker to secure a few more min-cashes. And from the way, you describe your thought process and played this hand, both not always opening 99 UTG, and not C-betting the flop or 3-bet jamming as played, I think, you are basically playing way to scared. The way to win tournaments and even to win money in tournaments are to go for it and be willing to risk all your chips, when odds are in your favour. And if you happen to run into the nuts and bust, then you just look to play the next tournament. Poker is a long term game, its not about surviving a bit longer in a particular tournament.

 

[ElmerS]

I would bet the flop and would bet it around 320.
First off all you have the range advantage. If you raise from UTG and the flop is KJ9 you are favourite against the calling ranges of your 2 opponents so I would 3-bet 100% of my UTG range at a KJ9 flop.
Second of all you have a nut advantage. On a KJ9 flop you have the most KK, JJ and 99 in your range and your opponent just has some 99 and QT so you would get a lot less check-raise bluffs against you so c betting 100% in this spot is much more profitable.

 

[KKillerss]

Preflop
This is a mandatory open,
And from the way, you describe your thought process and played this hand, both not always opening 99 UTG, and not C-betting the flop or 3-bet jamming as played, I think, you are basically playing to scared. The way to win tournaments and even to win money in tournaments are to go for it and be willing to risk all your chips, when odds are in your favour.

I would bet the flop and would bet it around 320.

Thanks guys. The thought on not C-Betting was largely to disguise the set and be put on a pair or flush draw. But indeed im on a bit of a downswing on the cash tables, which is what I mostly play, and certainly is putting me more on the scared money side.

So I like to play tournaments for the fun and sport(competition) aspect (but money is ever present in poker). On the philosophy thinking on cash games I might call less frequently this kind of hand. In tournament against a low stacker its an easy call, but against big stack I might not be folding even with a high risky of busting, thinking on final table/min cash.
Not sure if it is an EV behaviour or I am just acting more like a gambler/maniac.

 

[Jon Poker]

Short and sweet - the open is good and sizing is fine - the flop is a super wet texture, very coordinated and since our holding doesn't block any broadway cards - villans are more likely to hit this texture - checking in the middle here is completely correct from a GTO standpoint with the intent to check-raise.

So, once we connect this we'll and we find the proper check in the middle here, villan in the backseat should be betting this ALOT - so when the BB raises this, there's one move for us to make here -we just rip it in -- as I said, this board is super wet and there are going to be some turn cards we don't want to see. They can freeze us up, freeze villans up, make our lives hell, etc - the short end here is that with a hand this strong - we just go with it. Fearing a flopped straight is pointless, it is what it is, and we've got equity vs such - lots of combo draws (pair and flush draw, pair and straight draw) never folding here, 2 pairs never folding here, flush draws never folding here -- so the point is we get value from soooo much here, we just get to go with our hand on the flop - even with all this action. A made straight or better set (highly unlikely since this is not a 3bet pot) is just a cooler and it is what it is.

Conclusion - even with the action in front, just get it in - tons of bad turn cards, lots of hands to pull value from here - plus, how much stronger of a hand do you need to commit your stack here? Fearing the reaper will lose you more value than making some "hero fold" and being right one time. Get it in and don't look back.

 

[tt124f]

Get it in OTF is standard....

 

[KKillerss]

Conclusion - even with the action in front, just get it in - tons of bad turn cards, lots of hands to pull value from here - plus, how much stronger of a hand do you need to commit your stack here? Fearing the reaper will lose you more value than making some "hero fold" and being right one time. Get it in and don't look back.

I dont use to slowplay every hand, pretty much on the other hand I might overbet many times. I know straights and flush draws aint the best flops to try to lure your opponents in. I ask what is more likely to happen, to frighten weaker hands with the shove, or be outdrawn in the turn?

 

[fundiver199]

I dont use to slowplay every hand, pretty much on the other hand I might overbet many times. I know straights and flush draws aint the best flops to try to lure your opponents in. I ask what is more likely to happen, to frighten weaker hands with the shove, or be outdrawn in the turn?

A draw has so much equity on the flop, that you dont even care, if they fold, when you are giving them 2:1 with a shove. So if for instance the guy is raising a flushdraw and then fold to your jam, thats a great outcome for you. You win a pot, which is already big, and you reduce variance by not having to fade his outs.

The only reason to slowplay is to induce bluffs on later streets, but a set is to vulnerable on this board for that to be the more profitable line. If for instance a Q or T comes on the turn, he can pretend he hit it by jamming his flushdraw and perhaps get you to fold the best hand. Or if the flush complete, he can pretend to have that and jam a hand like JT and once again make you fold the best hand. So getting it in on the flop protects you from potentially making a big folding mistake on the turn.

 

[zuker]

On so wet board you should play bet,bet,bet to defend and to extract value.

 

[KKillerss]

Thanks!

 

[Jon Poker]

I dont use to slowplay every hand, pretty much on the other hand I might overbet many times. I know straights and flush draws aint the best flops to try to lure your opponents in. I ask what is more likely to happen, to frighten weaker hands with the shove, or be outdrawn in the turn?

We want to charge villans for their draws and in this case the way we get max value from our villans strongest draws is to get it all in on the flop - they will be getting a great price to see their equity through and sometimes we are going to lose - but when we hold, we get max value. When they miss their draws on the river, unless they bluff into us, we no longer get value from their hand. So the point is we don't care if they fold out weaker draws when we shove here, weak draws are not what we are targeting.

 

[theANMATOR]

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 30/60 - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG (Hero): 3,926 (65 bb)
MP: 2,869 (48 bb)
MP+1: 2,125 (35 bb)
CO: 3,043 (51 bb)
BU: 1,913 (32 bb)
SB: 732 (12 bb)
BB: 3,095 (52 bb)

Pre-Flop: (90) Hero is UTG with 9♦ 9♠
Hero raises to 150, 2 players fold, CO calls 150, 2 players fold, BB calls 90

Flop: (480) K♦ J♣ 9♣ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 240, BB raises to 720, Hero calls 720, CO calls 480

Turn: (2,640) 5♥ (3 players)
BB bets 2,225 (all-in),

Spoiler

Hero raises to 3,056 (all-in), CO folds

River: (7,090) A♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 7,090

Showdown:
UTG (Hero) shows 9♦ 9♠ (three of a kind, Nines)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 55%, Flop: 35%, Turn: 23%, River: 0%)

BB shows Q♥ T♣ (a straight, Ten to Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 45%, Flop: 65%, Turn: 77%, River: 100%)

BB wins 7,090

Well, tournament was going well, playing pretty standard with some nice preflop cards that connected wel with the flop, only one semi-bluff that was ok, to the point I was becoming to get little action. 99 isnt a hand that I would open raise UTG usually but the table was a bit tight and the blinds were beggining to bite.

F- I expected AA,KK and JJ to have been reraised before. Put the CC friend on AK of clubs or KJ. With a VPIP of 12 I didnt see the BB putting money on Q10 on that spot, with an early raise from the chip leader that was playing reasonably tight.
Check raise was called by the CO too, maybe on a flush draw.

T - as said, thought Q10 wouldnt be in play most of the time, and was kind of sure I was againt AcKc.
Was I dellusional, or was kind of a standard coin flip?

You did nothing wrong except for not betting the flop. There is no way you can escape the runout, so you have nothing to be ashamed of, just a standard cooler that anyone of us, even the bestest of bestest of pros would also go broke with.

Funny you mention though that you do not normally open 99 UTG. IMO that should be opened every time dealt UTG. You might consider even opening larger than your standard opening size. This might dissuade some opponents from continuing/defending with weak marginal hands like Q/T o. Lets say you get 3bet with 99s - I'd be 50/50 about getting it in preflop - if I had a read on the opponent that they 3bet light, which a lot of micro players do with A/x. Bet a lotta dollars though Q/T off is not calling a 3bet nor a shove preflop.

Personally I open 77+ UTG - and I consider the situation if I get 3bet with specifically 77s. I will continue with 88+ nearly every time (stack/situation/villain dependent) if 3bet.

GL in your next one.