$27.50 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: JQ suited UTG - what can I learn from this?

[vegasjj]

poker stars $25.00+$2.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 2291648
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: t3170 63.40 BBs
Hero (UTG): t3065 61.30 BBs
UTG+1: t1170 23.40 BBs
UTG+2: t2695 53.90 BBs
MP1: t2925 58.50 BBs
MP2: t6825 136.50 BBs
CO: t4015 80.30 BBs
BTN: t4005 80.10 BBs
SB: t7105 142.10 BBs

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is UTG with J ♥ Q ♥
Hero raises to t150, 7 folds, BB calls t100

Flop: (t325) J ♠ 6 ♦ 3 ♠ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t300, BB calls t300

Turn: (t925) 2 ♦ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t800, BB calls t800

River: (t2525) 7 ♠ (2 players)
BB bets t1920 all in, Hero calls t1815 all in

Final Pot: t6155
BB shows K ♠ 6 ♠ (a flush, King high)
Hero shows J ♥ Q ♥ (a pair of Jacks)
BB wins t6155

Here is what I see - that is after the fact:
- I should have believed that he did catch his flush. This is always easier for me to say after the game

- I was UTG - really was not sure if to open or not. I like the hand - but UTG.. still not sure. I would still be playing had I folded .. can't argue with that. But that hand has so much potential.. do we not need at times to try a hand like that (not always - but a few times)?
- Only the BB guy called the bet - found that encouraging - also left me in position. He checked the flop - felt cautiously optimistic about that having flopped the top pr. Was my bet too small? I actually think it was OK
- He checked again after turn. I did think about shoving - but opted for what I believed was going to get me "more value" (something I am trying to work on). Perhaps that was the big mistake?
- and of course since he called my 800 bet - and shoved after river - by all standards I should have folded - just the little devil did not let me - in case he was too pot committed and was bluffing all along...but really knew in my bones I should not call.

PS - not relevant - but in case anyone wonders - I did get in the game with a satellite - so the cost of the lesson was lower.

 

[donkysnake]

what u learn from this? hmm, easy - dont play JQ, i know its suted and it looks cool and strong, but its not!

 

[baudib1]

7s completes all draws· Fold river

 

[Propane Goat]

On a draw heavy board, if villain is willing to come along OOP and all of a sudden shoves into me when three suited cards hit along with three that can make a straight, I have to believe that he's made something that will crush top pair. You've already shown strength throughout the hand, it's not like you're just limping in and calling villain's bets, so it's probably not real likely he's just shoving with air. I've seen several sources that recommend opening in EP with suited connectors once in a while to vary your play, so making this play in the first place probably wasn't a bad idea.

I have to fight off the urge to call in these situations too because I don't want to be bullshitted off of the pot when I have the best hand, but when I have called I feel like a total idiot way more often than not because I knew in my gut that I was beat and usually the villain turns over the exact hand that I figured him for.

 

[vegasjj]

On a draw heavy board, if villain is willing to come along OOP and all of a sudden shoves into me when three suited cards hit along with three that can make a straight, I have to believe that he's made something that will crush top pair. You've already shown strength throughout the hand, it's not like you're just limping in and calling villain's bets, so it's probably not real likely he's just shoving with air. I've seen several sources that recommend opening in EP with suited connectors once in a while to vary your play, so making this play in the first place probably wasn't a bad idea.

I have to fight off the urge to call in these situations too because I don't want to be bullshitted off of the pot when I have the best hand, but when I have called I feel like a total idiot way more often than not because I knew in my gut that I was beat and usually the villain turns over the exact hand that I figured him for.

Thanks for posting this - it is EXACTLY what happened and HOW I FEEL. So helps me a lot to know that it can happen to others too - and just maybe I am not lost for ever in the poker world.

I am trying to think up ways to STOP me from making those calls where I know I'm beat - I just want to be sure (want to see I'm not beeing bluffed off a hand). I need a doable routine - to force me to think AGAIN - better yet to just not think when "I KNOW" - and just fold that hand.

 

[kevbot]

You have to change your bet sizing!!!! 800 into a 925 pot? try about 1/2 or 3/4 pot. This will ensure that you keep weaker hands in the pot and you can gain more information from them for less chips. Same with the 300 into 325 on the flop.


Think about it this way: If you had bet 175 on the flop, then the pot would be 675 on the turn. Now, say you bet 400 on the turn and he calls - now the pot is 1475 on the river (as compared to 2525 the way you played it). This method of betting allows him to call if with weaker hands than top pair. With only 2525 in the pot on the river, you will still have enough behind where you don't have to risk the rest of your chips in this pot with just top pair medium kicker.


In general you don't want to put >50 BBs in a single pot with just top pair. But this is just a rule of thumb.


Edit: also I don't mind opening with QJs UTG but only about half the time and not if you have a loose table image.

 

[IM deusXmachina]

I agree with a lot of the feedback you have already gotten in this thread so far. I also would like add that you DID learn that no matter what you bet, some people will never fold that flush draw... and I also like to play the J Q suited, even though under the gun I tend to be a little less aggressive with it.

 

[Blobweird123]

One bad thing I see here is ppl saying half the time they'll open there. Do you flip coins or what? If the hand is profitable to play from that position, play it. If its not, don't. As for specifics I fold here utg fr.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

Q-Js is not a good hand for UTG in FR. It is just a hand that is dominated by so many hands villain could call us with.

Play Q-Js from late position only IMO.

 

[iliass90]

I usually play QJ as a normal hand (if they are not suited) if yes I may raise a little bit depends on position.

 

[Poker Orifice]

7s completes all draws· Fold river

this ^

Ask yourself, "What do I beat here that would play it like this?" (keeping in mind that villain has seen you open from UTG (< typically strong), you've cbet almost POT... and same with turn near "POT").

 

[Loonbat]

I personally think the raise pre-flop is fine. What you do need to do is prevent yourself from getting too attached to 1-pair hands post-flop.

 

[baudib1]

61 bbs deep, I open worse UTG all day.

 

[RamdeeBen]

First thing stands out is that when there are no antes in play you shouldn't be opening JQs UTG when you're 60<bb behind imo. When antes are in play it's more than fine. I think I'd open JQ MP onwards pre ante. That said; I'm not saying it's a bad/loose open, I think it's just more optimal to fold at this stage.

River; as already stated is just a fold. Not exactly sure what worse hands you expect to see here and I don't really see many bluffs at all given his x/c range on the flop/turn always nearly consists of a draw.

 

[Lusitanea]

1st - don´t play QJ (even suited) from UTG
2nd - fold river

 

[1bollywood1]

jqs UTG , u can play it but on river call allin its too much with just top pair with a possible draw and evry 2pairs, 3 of kind and , top pair better kiker .

i shoul call ( and loose here) if the stats of vilain are very aggressive and i saw some bluffs from him if not fold.

 

[dragic1]

It depends on your read on him, but check calling is VERY indicative of a drawing hand. When he check-calls twice, you can narrow his range enough to where you fold the river.

 

[grandpajesse]

It's difficult to imagine that you are ever good here. When the villain plays this hand so passively by calling oop and then c/calls the flop and turn, he is rarely ever bluffing the river. If villain was going to bluff, he would do so before the pot got so bloated. ie c/raise otf, or lead the turn. This is an easy fold. If villain has a bluff, it is very rare. There would have to be some dynamic fir me to believe that I could be good, like villain thinks we are fos, and we believe him to be capable of turning a made hand into a bluff.

 

[DevilMe03]

It shows the power of position. I think when playing out of postion try to control the size of the pot because there are many options available to your opponents to take away the pot. Saying that i dont mind your raising with JQ. I think bet sizing of 1/2 pot is better in this situation. And at last calling allin with just one pair with such board is not right here.