26 players left in $33 Pstars MTT

[slycbnew]

The SB has regularly been shoving behind where there are at least two players already in the pot, whether the earlier positions were limping. He hasn't shown down a single hand (no callers). Most other players are playing very tentatively - MP1 is the other aggressive player at the table, and he's already folded.

I followed the first limper in knowing this, and called the all-in that I was sure was coming. My M is 6 at this point - I was looking for a double up opportunity, so I was hoping that rather than me raising all-in, where the SB might fold, I would flat call and hope the SB would push so I could call his all in.

Should I be waiting on a better hand? Is the logic above idiotic? Thanks

Stacks:
* HERO with 43741
* BTN with 40586
* SB with 56214
* BB with 192968
* UTG with 36227
* UTG+1 with 111506
* MP1 with 276110
* MP2 with 70487
* MP3 with 66139

Blinds: 1500/3000
Site: pokerstars
* * Dealt to HERO:8♦ 8♣
* * Sklansky group 4
Preflop:
* * 4 players fold.
* * MP3 calls [3000] Hero calls [3000] BTN raises 4000 to 7000
* * SB raises 48914 to 55914 [ all-in ]
* * 2 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 6

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

 

[shinedown.45]

With an M of 6, this is an insta-shove.
Sure your intention was to call an all-in from SB, but limping is just wrong, you want to win some pots and not pushing here allows another player in the hand.
SB may have folded to your all-in allowing you to go HU with MP3 where your 88 would stand a better chance of winning.
with only one player in the hand, there could only be 2 out of 6 overs that beat you, but allowing SB to shove, you could now be against 4 out of 6 overs that beat you.
So IMO, yes, it was bad logic on your part.

 

[slycbnew]

Thanks Shine - I felt I was trying to be too "cute" on this - getting SB to fold and preventing other players from entering are definitely the right way to go - I'm going to put a post-it on my monitor "DON'T LIMP"

 

[naruto_miu]

Thanks Shine - I felt I was trying to be too "cute" on this - getting SB to fold and preventing other players from entering are definitely the right way to go - I'm going to put a post-it on my monitor "DON'T LIMP"

How did the hand work out for you, if you don't mind me asking? Personally I like your idea, the problem is with an overly aggressive person like the SB, they might be doing this type of move with 10/9 or A/2 or W/E, even though the thought is sane, we're risking our tourney life on the line in a at best 70/30 situation or 60/40. Keeping that in mind I personally would've shoved with the 8s taking others out of the pot, if they call they call, yet if they don't we win the blinds and antes, thus increasing our stack and fending of the blinds for atleast untill we get into the money.

This by the way is just my own way of doing things, and you don't really have to agree with it at all, just speaking my opionion in this situation

 

[marble]

pocket 88s is not a trapping hand preflop

 

[slycbnew]

All folded to heads up - SB's QQ held up...

Even if I were acting after his all in instead of before, I was intending to be all in against SB because I felt his range for the all in was huge - he'd been all in five times in the prior two orbits in pots with dead money - so I was going broke here either way ... sigh...

Though maybe that's debatable? With an M of 6, should I be calling an all in with 88? With the read on SB, I think I would still call SB's all in - but with a player that I have no solid read on, say if MP3 had gone all in before me, should I be calling or folding 88?

 

[naruto_miu]

All folded to heads up - SB's QQ held up...

Even if I were acting after his all in instead of before, I was intending to be all in against SB because I felt his range for the all in was huge - he'd been all in five times in the prior two orbits in pots with dead money - so I was going broke here either way ... sigh...

Though maybe that's debatable? With an M of 6, should I be calling an all in with 88? With the read on SB, I think I would still call SB's all in - but with a player that I have no solid read on, say if MP3 had gone all in before me, should I be calling or folding 88?

IMHO, you did nothng wrong here except limp regardless that hand was meant to be, and regardless of pushing/calling a push, you were going to be up against the "Ladies", so it really makes no difference either way you were going broke this hand against this aggro player .

Just sucks that at times it's these aggro players with all the luck in the world and that in-it-self really really makes reading ppl like this overall next to impossible.

once again I think you made the correct play regardless of outcome

 

[tpb221]

I like this play, though with 8's I'd just shove and hope to win the blinds and antes. Either way you would have lost, but this is a play I like to use against a Argo opponent. You'd be surprise at what there pushing with sometimes. Better luck next time.

 

[crazyfool]

I've done the same thing vs guys who shoved so many hands and the same thing has happened. Sometimes thats just the way it turns out.

 

[Inscore77]

I'm all in, youre stack is pretty low and against a maniac that could have anything I would want to get my chips in

 

[cardsDontMatter]

26 players left, were you in the money or was the bubble coming(?) and this is important. 3BBs separate you and the SB, so he's not in any better shape than you and he's shoving. Great strategy on his part.

6bbs is just way too low, maybe you just lost a chunk or you're waiting out the bubble, I don't know.

Hell... 10-15bbs here is way too low, given your table mates chips stacks...you have to resign yourself to the fact that you're done with this tournament and, like the SB, the only way to go out is ****ing fight tooth and nail. Waiting around and trapping is futile.

 

[c9h13no3]

Shove preflop. Limping with an M of 9 or less makes baby jesus cry.

 

[JoeDi]

I think what you did was fine. You just got caught in a situation where the SB had a better hand.. If you went all in he would have called with QQ so you did nothing wrong except maybe over estimate how much he was bluffing.. You have a borderline hand anyway.. There really is no reason to shove with a borderline hand if your stack is low.. I cant tell you how many times i have seen people pull out miracles by playing the last of their chips smart.. I was at a 180 person sit and go.. There were 3 of us left at the table which had a total of 270,000 chips.. I was down to 5k and instead of playing recklessly i came back and ended up ...I cant really say winning but the top 2 each received the same prize. so i made the top 2.. I went from 5k to 180k in a couple hands by playing safe.. If you have one hand left make sure your playing a hand that is worth playing.. If you are so short stacked then it really is no inconveince for another player to call you since he has limited exposure in that hand..

 

[iMaGiN.]

withoit a question a shove preflop. M is too low to sit around and wait.

 

[cardsDontMatter]

There really is no reason to shove with a borderline hand if your stack is low.. I cant tell you how many times i have seen people pull out miracles by playing the last of their chips smart.. I was at a 180 person sit and go.. There were 3 of us left at the table which had a total of 270,000 chips.. I was down to 5k and instead of playing recklessly i came back and ended up ...I cant really say winning but the top 2 each received the same prize. so i made the top 2.

There are plenty of reasons for shoving any two cards if your stack is low....

Your experience sounds like the 180 player PAD at FT and the OP is playing in a money tournament. The two are vastly different. Flat payouts, such as PAD satellites, do caution players near the bubble to forego pushing.. if you had 5k with 265,000K left on the table, then the two bigstacks didn't know how to play against a short stack. Congratulations, by the way.

If I am playing a money tournament with a tiered scale payout, I want nothing less than the final table, and I do believe that I speak for most of the community. Cashing for your buyin doesn't make for profitable poker. Neither, really does doubling your money. $Won/Hours - Buyin+Rake is the equation.

At some point in every tiered scake tournament, you may have to put your chips at risk to make that FT, and this hand is that case.

 

[silverslugger33]

If your M was about 9 or higher, than I would agree with this play; however, you can't take the chance on the SB just folding or calling, because you don't want to let them see a flop when all you have is 8s. If they fold and you get the blinds with 8s, that's fine.

 

[spunka]

26 players left, were you in the money or was the bubble coming(?) and this is important.

This is the importent part.

And as other mention a flat call is not the best play, as it will easy get you in trouble, like here.

I think with this play a raise and an AI I would let the hand go, but on the other hand, I would be able to win a huge pot if I hit my 8.

So it very much depends on how far you are from the money or how big the importence of making it into the money is for you.

 

[slycbnew]

This is the importent part.

And as other mention a flat call is not the best play, as it will easy get you in trouble, like here.

I think with this play a raise and an AI I would let the hand go, but on the other hand, I would be able to win a huge pot if I hit my 8.

So it very much depends on how far you are from the money or how big the importence of making it into the money is for you.

I'm already in the money at this point, payouts were down to 150+ - I'm trying to get to the final table...

Appreciate all the comments - great advice from everyone!!!