$25 cents NL HE MTT: Did I over play ??

[ratbat615]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

25 cents

Currency

$

pokerstars, $0.23 + $0.02 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (15 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

ratbat615 (UTG): 3,614 (30 bb)
Mavroskoufis99 (MP): 517 (4 bb)
Nico.260401 (MP+1): 588 (5 bb)
Maxi_Lopes9 (CO): 1,944 (16 bb)
hesoma_89 (BU): 5,033 (42 bb)
deniantunes5 (SB): 3,582 (30 bb)
michaelmdss (BB): 6,000 (50 bb)

Pre-Flop: (285) Hero (ratbat615) is UTG with A♠ Q♠
ratbat615 (UTG) raises to 360, 3 players fold, hesoma_89 (BU) calls 360, deniantunes5 (SB) calls 300, 1 fold

Flop: (1,305) 8♠ 6♠ Q♦ (3 players)
deniantunes5 (SB) checks, ratbat615 (UTG) checks, hesoma_89 (BU) bets 431, deniantunes5 (SB) folds, ratbat615 (UTG) raises to 862, hesoma_89 (BU) calls 431

Turn: (3,029) 5♦ (2 players)
ratbat615 (UTG) bets 1,515, hesoma_89 (BU) calls 1,515

River: (6,059) J♦ (2 players)
ratbat615 (UTG) bets 862 (all-in), hesoma_89 (BU) calls 862

Total pot: 7,783

Showdown:
ratbat615 (UTG) shows A♠ Q♠ (a pair of Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 70%, Flop: 92%, Turn: 95%, River: 0%)

hesoma_89 (BU) shows Q♥ J♥ (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 30%, Flop: 8%, Turn: 5%, River: 100%)

hesoma_89 (BU) wins 7,783

I pick up AQ of spades ♠️ utg so I 3x bet everyone folded the button and the sb calls the flop comes 8os 6os and Qod so I check my hand 🤚 cause it’s so strong 💪 the small blind checks and the button bets a little less than half pot and the sb folds and I min raised and he called Immediately I put him on Qx .so the turn is the 5od.this is the spot we’re I was thinking 🤔 to go for pot control. I bet half pot and the villain 🦹‍♀️ calls . The river is the Jod .now what Qx continues on turn Kq Qj and I think 🤔 that Qt will fold on turn cause the know they are behind.because of the pre flop action. I guess my question is do you think 🤔 I could have lost less.maybe check fold river or just a bad beat . I think 💭 I could have played it different. Thank you for your comment.

 

[zipocool]

you should have bet all-in on the turn, given the dangerous texture of this board, especially after a check-raise on the flop, and of course you were not lucky with the river

 

[ratbat615]

you should have bet all-in on the turn, given the dangerous texture of this board, especially after a check-raise on the flop, and of course you were not lucky with the river

At least I would have some fold equity if I go all in on the turn.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
With stacks this shallow a 3BB open size is very large. I assume, this was a "on demand" SnG, and in those I only use 3BB open raises in the first level, where blinds are 20/10 and the average stack 75BB. After than I am already down to 2,5BB. Small detail perhaps, but a pretty easy thing to improve.

Flop
Checking here as a slowplay is not terrible, because there are few cards, that are really bad for you, when you have the flushdraw covered. But even so I dont think, its the best way to play the hand. BTN is not always going to bet for you, and stacks are not shallow enough to easily get the chips in with only two bets. Also while another spade will improve you to the nut flush, it might also kill your action. So I think, this check-raise is a little bit fancy and unnessesary, and I would just make a normal C-bet basically planning to go bet, bet, shove on most runouts. Or perhaps bet, bet, check-evaluate on bad runouts.

Turn
As a rule of thumb we should either check or jam the turn, if there is less than a pot sized bet left, and in this case I would clearly jam for value. With your sizing you have put in 75% of your stack already, which mean, you are way past committing yourself to the pot. So even on the worst possible river card you will still get stacked, if he somehow end up with a better hand. He on the other hand can potentially save 862 chips by just calling you now and then not put in the rest on the river with a busted draw. So by using this size you are essentially allowing him to freeroll you with parts of his range.

River
As played you have to get the rest in now.

Results
At the end of the day the hand is just a bad beat, and you did not overplay it. But with that being said I do think, it could have been played better on basically all streets other than the river. Which you should not have seen this way. So lots of things to work on, but busting from tournaments due to a bad beat or a cooler is part of the game and cannot be avoided.

 

[eetenor]

PokerStars, $0.23 + $0.02 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (15 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

ratbat615 (UTG): 3,614 (30 bb)
Mavroskoufis99 (MP): 517 (4 bb)
Nico.260401 (MP+1): 588 (5 bb)
Maxi_Lopes9 (CO): 1,944 (16 bb)
hesoma_89 (BU): 5,033 (42 bb)
deniantunes5 (SB): 3,582 (30 bb)
michaelmdss (BB): 6,000 (50 bb)

Pre-Flop: (285) Hero (ratbat615) is UTG with A♠ Q♠
ratbat615 (UTG) raises to 360, 3 players fold, hesoma_89 (BU) calls 360, deniantunes5 (SB) calls 300, 1 fold

Flop: (1,305) 8♠ 6♠ Q♦ (3 players)
deniantunes5 (SB) checks, ratbat615 (UTG) checks, hesoma_89 (BU) bets 431, deniantunes5 (SB) folds, ratbat615 (UTG) raises to 862, hesoma_89 (BU) calls 431

Turn: (3,029) 5♦ (2 players)
ratbat615 (UTG) bets 1,515, hesoma_89 (BU) calls 1,515

River: (6,059) J♦ (2 players)
ratbat615 (UTG) bets 862 (all-in), hesoma_89 (BU) calls 862

Total pot: 7,783

Showdown:
ratbat615 (UTG) shows A♠ Q♠ (a pair of Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 70%, Flop: 92%, Turn: 95%, River: 0%)

hesoma_89 (BU) shows Q♥ J♥ (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 30%, Flop: 8%, Turn: 5%, River: 100%)

hesoma_89 (BU) wins 7,783

I pick up AQ of spades ♠️ utg so I 3x bet everyone folded the button and the sb calls the flop comes 8os 6os and Qod so I check my hand 🤚 cause it’s so strong 💪 the small blind checks and the button bets a little less than half pot and the sb folds and I min raised and he called Immediately I put him on Qx .so the turn is the 5od.this is the spot we’re I was thinking 🤔 to go for pot control. I bet half pot and the villain 🦹‍♀️ calls . The river is the Jod .now what Qx continues on turn Kq Qj and I think 🤔 that Qt will fold on turn cause the know they are behind.because of the pre flop action. I guess my question is do you think 🤔 I could have lost less.maybe check fold river or just a bad beat . I think 💭 I could have played it different. Thank you for your comment.

No results seen
Opn fine- sizing fine-BTN SB call
Flop we flop very strong hand-- We want to think about the range our V's can have if they continue before we act on this flop.
AA KK is very unlikely- We have the A high draw so K high only that leaves the nuts the V could have to be sets- both V would only call 88 66 most often preflop
The hands we get value from on the flop weaker draws weaker QX but there is no KSQS combos which would most often be the hand that would stack off on flop that we are crushing.
Straight flush combos are possible so we need to be aware of those

You check flop ---When you say you overplayed your hand I assumed you bet too large on flop and got 2 folds I was never expecting a check
We always always bet this flop- 33% or 25% is fine nothing larger is necessary. We bet to get stacks in so we want to build pots while our V's still have draws.

BTN leads 1/3 pot BTN range is wide here so this bet size is incorrect for a full range bet which this sizing is used for. This might suggest they are strong here which means sets (after results--top pair is a larger bet than this if the V is skilled)

You min click back screams strength so your action is unbalanced -so now we have complicated this more than it needs to be.
BTN calls- would they call sets- most likely no

Turn 5 making a straight for 97ss or other 97o
We lead half pot leaving behind $862----What are we hoping to accomplish with this sizing- what calls this that we are ahead of that does not call a shove based on our range defining so far? We have outs to the nuts we can shove here- folds by BTN are ok too

We were always losing this hand that is the key to this hand- This is what you need to know in 25cent games We were always losing this hand.
There is nothing we can do to win this hand this player is never folding- if we lead shove the flop we lose- if we check raise shove the flop we lose
If we min XR the flop then lead shove the turn we lose---this player is never folding.

You did not over play your hand you under played it- by checking flop you allowed too much of the BTN range and the SB range to realize equity by btn checking back.

Your min check raise flop is good sizing if it is a setup for a turn shove as a balanced play with bluffs but you did not shove turn. At 25cents we do not need to balance.

 

[kostja007]

I also recommend to push the turn. Your stack you have left on the river is to small to play further and also you can't x/f with that hand. Just jam on the turn. You have a perfect hand with TPTK + Nut FD on the flop and turn.

 

[MTT Database Review]

Its a pretty weird spot starting with the 3x, which should make opponent's ranges tighter. I am guessing both check or small cbet are possible on the flop, although if there was an AQ combo to cbet more often, I think its this one. One reason for it is that this combo is too strong for a checkraise. That flop is way too safe for your to be checkraising. And if we dont want to checkraise it, it kinda makes sense to put it into cbet ourself.
And if you actually somehow get to the turn like this, its probably a check with AQss (while a jam with AQhh and AQcc).



btw

As a rule of thumb we should either check or jam the turn, if there is less than a pot sized bet left

That is a very bad rule of thumb if you are talking about all spots in general. Spot like this OOP with two flush draws - sure. But in general not. Especially IP. It is a very common mistake of lower stakes players that they jam turns all the time instead making non-allin bets.

 

[ratbat615]

No results seen
Opn fine- sizing fine-BTN SB call
Flop we flop very strong hand-- We want to think about the range our V's can have if they continue before we act on this flop.
AA KK is very unlikely- We have the A high draw so K high only that leaves the nuts the V could have to be sets- both V would only call 88 66 most often preflop
The hands we get value from on the flop weaker draws weaker QX but there is no KSQS combos which would most often be the hand that would stack off on flop that we are crushing.
Straight flush combos are possible so we need to be aware of those

You check flop ---When you say you overplayed your hand I assumed you bet too large on flop and got 2 folds I was never expecting a check
We always always bet this flop- 33% or 25% is fine nothing larger is necessary. We bet to get stacks in so we want to build pots while our V's still have draws.

BTN leads 1/3 pot BTN range is wide here so this bet size is incorrect for a full range bet which this sizing is used for. This might suggest they are strong here which means sets (after results--top pair is a larger bet than this if the V is skilled)

You min click back screams strength so your action is unbalanced -so now we have complicated this more than it needs to be.
BTN calls- would they call sets- most likely no

Turn 5 making a straight for 97ss or other 97o
We lead half pot leaving behind $862----What are we hoping to accomplish with this sizing- what calls this that we are ahead of that does not call a shove based on our range defining so far? We have outs to the nuts we can shove here- folds by BTN are ok too

We were always losing this hand that is the key to this hand- This is what you need to know in 25cent games We were always losing this hand.
There is nothing we can do to win this hand this player is never folding- if we lead shove the flop we lose- if we check raise shove the flop we lose
If we min XR the flop then lead shove the turn we lose---this player is never folding.

You did not over play your hand you under played it- by checking flop you allowed too much of the BTN range and the SB range to realize equity by btn checking back.

Your min check raise flop is good sizing if it is a setup for a turn shove as a balanced play with bluffs but you did not shove turn. At 25cents we do not need to balance.

Totally 💯 agree at least if I shoved the turn I would have some fold Equity. Thank you for your comment always helpful.

 

[ratbat615]

I also recommend to push the turn. Your stack you have left on the river is to small to play further and also you can't x/f with that hand. Just jam on the turn. You have a perfect hand with TPTK + Nut FD on the flop and turn.

Thank you for your comment.

 

[ratbat615]

Its a pretty weird spot starting with the 3x, which should make opponent's ranges tighter. I am guessing both check or small cbet are possible on the flop, although if there was an AQ combo to cbet more often, I think its this one. One reason for it is that this combo is too strong for a checkraise. That flop is way too safe for your to be checkraising. And if we dont want to checkraise it, it kinda makes sense to put it into cbet ourself.
And if you actually somehow get to the turn like this, its probably a check with AQss (while a jam with AQhh and AQcc).



btw

That is a very bad rule of thumb if you are talking about all spots in general. Spot like this OOP with two flush draws - sure. But in general not. Especially IP. It is a very common mistake of lower stakes players that they jam turns all the time instead making non-allin bets.

Thank you for your comment.

 

[Station_Master]

It's just a cooler really. Especially by the river there's no way you can fold with so little atack left. As others have said would probably be better just to shove turn. I quite like the x-raise, but why so small, in the end you get no more money in the pot than if you had just cbet 2/3. A slightly bigger x-raise say to 3x the bet, makes the shove turn smaller too.