$20 NLHE MTT Turbo Rebuy: Analyze this Girl on Girl Action

Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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well...if the thread title enticed you in here, you will probably be disappointed. This is just about a heads up poker hand between 2 girls.

This is a live $20 turbo rebuy tourney that occurs after the main tourney in a local live card room. As such it is full of moderately bad players who have busted out and the structure is terrible. We had about 90 entries including rebuys and 6 were paid. I'd like to note that of the 90 something entries only about 10 were girls, and when we made it down to the final 4 players 3 of us were girls! Shout out to the ladies....anyways I digress....

Now, we've knocked out all the boys and it's just me and Ana heads up. She is a very strong and very very hyper aggressive player, in fact that is probably her biggest weakness is being overly aggressive.

Our stacks are shallow she has me covered with about 20bbs and I have about 18 bbs.

She proposes a chip chop but I say "I'd really like to practice my heads up game" and she says "great! me too" and as the dealer is getting ready to deal our first hand we are chatting about how we've both been practicing our heads up game. No specifics, just that fact that we've both been studying it lately.

OK, first hand I am in the BB and she is the SB/Dealer.

She min raises her button and I look down at :8c4::9c4: That is plenty playable vs her min raise range and I flat. I think folding is too weak, and 3betting is tough because she is so likely to 4bet jam and I'll have to fold an otherwise playable hand.

Flop comes :4c4::9h4::jh4:

sweet! I plan to check raise all in with my 2nd pair. I can count on her to Cbet almost any flop if I check to her.

to my surprise she jams for (effectively) 16 bb into a 4bb pot. I go in the tank. I'm seriously considering folding when she says "If you really want to work on your heads up game you should fold so we can play more than 1 hand".

It is that comment that convinces me she does not have a jack or an overpair. She could definitely have bottom pair, a small pocket pair, 2 overs or a draw, and if she has a combo draw like a flush draw with a gut shot I'm probably a slight dog.

What to do?
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

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I am not a heads up guru but i personally will call this bet. It is turbo, heads up and the stacks are not deep.

Heads up action can be quite fast and loose but i am never letting second pair go here. Since both of us has roughly 20 big blinds, even giving up a 4bb pot is a big deal. I don't mind even if i am behind in this situation because we have a monster in this kind of situation - "Second pair with backdoor flush draw". Sorry cannot fold.:pepsi:
 
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horizon12

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Oh, these girls, too many words.. :)

Fold with our second pair on this wet board.... She can shove like draw , FD+overcards , top pair or second pair with best kicker, hard to say because stack very short..., but obvious fold.

I presented various rangee hands in most cases we have about 40% equity or less ( vs FD with overcards , top pair , gutshot with FD , second pair with good kicker)
50% equity or more we have only against QTo or second pair with bad kicker, or full bluffing..
 
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Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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Oh, these girls, too many words.. :)

Yes, I am generally long winded. ;)

But THIS time I'm actually setting up the backstory for a comment that gave me a strong read. In live poker these little details are important because without HUD stats; reads and meta-game is a much bigger consideration.

:p
 
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fold and keep practicing hero´s hu, i think is a race, very tough call and villain´s move was nice considering there were few chances hero felt comfortable enough to think it was her hand (no TP, not even a set, not a draw not 2 pairs)

3 scenarios:

Villain is way over if: hits the 9 which makes hard to believe that villain had the other one (but two still there) and what about holding a J, or tens, jacks, queens, kings, aces, nines or fours. Also if villain had something like AK, AQ, AT, KQ, KT, QT, T8 (two hearts)

Close race if villain had: AK, AQ, AT, KQ, KT, QT, T8 (off) and Q8 or T7 and 2 hearts or 2 hearts and a 4 or maybe 2 hearts and a overcard

Villain is way behind with and overcard + 4, 9 with a kicker under 8, or something like a low pair 88, 77, 66, 55, 33 or 22

imho 2nd scenario with a close race was around 50%, last scenario where villain was bluffing could be like 25% (considering villain is super aggro otherwise would be around 10-15, it was the first hand of a HU!!!)
 
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sorry, i didnt mention about the comment that villain did because could have 2 meanings, in one way villain was saying: ¨fold because i hit the flop¨ but this flop was very likely to be hit by hero so the comment could be in the way: ¨OK i know you hit the flop but anyway i am still the aggro here and im bluffing again!¨

however i think it was a race so the comment could not be a bluff or way to encourage hero to pay
 
Aces2w1n

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FOLD!!!!!!

It sounds like she is enticing you to call... Often you have to sum up our opponent, and I think she's experienced enough that we can't trust her and she knows how to play.

So when you know someone has experience and has a decent game we sometimes have to ignore tells because their tells can be fake... Hence why people wear headphones and block that stuff out.

We call and win we feel great. but if we lose it man it would just make me feel sick in the gut...

FOLD FOLD FOLD!!!! there will be a better spot



.......


But definetly would've tanked a bit longer than normal if she was talking. There was a hand I was watching on youtube and Daniel Neagrane sorry bad spelling, but he got talked into calling when he was behind with his straight and the other guy had a flush. It's just funny I watched that video and now read this thread it's just proof people are trying to trick you into calling. This move is pretty basic really. And people tend to be bluffing less these days and turn up with the nuts.


......


Hmmm okay she was talking a lot.... but what was her body language suggesting??? how did she put the chips in the middle?? facial features?? Leaning back forward??? fidgeting.... lips tightly together with some tension could mean bluff or any movement in that area.


Chips placed further away from her means she's expecting to lose possibly... closer together she could be lazy and knowing their coming back anyway so why bother putting them all the way in the middle? haha all these little bs things that can spring up.

Some people can be well balanced but if you ask something random they'll be put off balance and disorientated for a moment giving your chance to take advantage of that weakness.
 
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stevenright

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i wouldve folded ... you had plenty of blinds and would get other spots wich you would put pressure on her and not the other way around.

but tell us how it ended... did you call and she showed 8Qh and didnt hit and you won? :D
 
Everybodylovesdeuces

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If you weren't planning to call when she shoves you should never plan a check raise. Were you planning only to check raise if she doesn't shove all in? Why not just jam the flop?
 
stevenright

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If you weren't planning to call when she shoves you should never plan a check raise. Were you planning only to check raise if she doesn't shove all in? Why not just jam the flop?

you need to learn a little more about size-betting...

the pot was around 4 bbs + antes,.. so she had 15+bbs behinds.. if she checks the other one put about 2,5 bbs in the pot ... so the shove would be a lot more profitable if she gets the fold and could be good against some drawing hand that couldve just saw the draw without paying for it...
 
Dubstep

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I doubt your a girl. what girl says cougar on heat lol
 
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WiZZiM

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With your reads its a pretty clear call.

The question really is are your reads correct? If you think she is tricky then you may see way less bluff hands and more value hands. If she is pretty straightforward then it looks like she wants you to fold... if ever I think someone is trying to make me do something ill do the exact opposite of what they want me to do.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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If you weren't planning to call when she shoves you should never plan a check raise. Were you planning only to check raise if she doesn't shove all in? Why not just jam the flop?

I was going to check raise her Cbet, which would have been between 2 and 4bbs meaning my 16bb bet should have some fold equity. Although my read doesn't change, when she jams it puts me in a tough spot because I hate to call off my tourney life with no fold equity...

Hmmm okay she was talking a lot.... but what was her body language suggesting??? how did she put the chips in the middle?? facial features?? Leaning back forward??? fidgeting.... lips tightly together with some tension could mean bluff or any movement in that area.


Chips placed further away from her means she's expecting to lose possibly... closer together she could be lazy and knowing their coming back anyway so why bother putting them all the way in the middle? haha all these little bs things that can spring up.

Some people can be well balanced but if you ask something random they'll be put off balance and disorientated for a moment giving your chance to take advantage of that weakness.

My read was that she didn't have a jack or overpair and that she actually wanted me to fold. This was based on physical tells and her comment, but it was the comment that put me over the top. I know these kind of comments can go either way and mean they want you to call or want you to fold... But I felt that she genuinely wanted a fold.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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Well, I ended up calling. She had T9o and I was notched and never improved and our heads up match was over after 1 hand!

I think the presence of draws tips the scales towards a call here, but it's close either way. If it's a dry board I can let it go as there are fewer hands in her range I'm beating.
 
duggs

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why do you want to c/j flop? thats not what i would be doing? i would be c/c flop

pre seems fine

respectfully she doesn't seem good HU, seems more like she is clicking buttons
 
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