$2 NLHE STT Turbo: Why is this not an ATC shove?

[jaded848]

$2 NL HE STT Turbo: Why is this not an ATC shove?

Case #1- I was under the impression that when I have a big chip lead like this and I'm in the SB, this position was unexploitable. Apparently I have no clue what that means. Why am I not shoving ATC here?

I get even more confused when I think about the ICM principle that "the more chips you have, the less they are worth." I understand that to mean that each chip is independently worth less when you have a large total number of chips, which makes sense based on prize pool equity. But if that's the case, then wouldn't that lean this more toward a shove?(ESPECIALLY against only a 13% calling range?)

Someone please explain to me the main features that make case #2 a shove (even against a 100% calling range on the bubble) and case #1 a fold. Ok so K2s is better than K3o, but K3o is a shove in case #2 also. Furthermore, I tried adjusting my stack so it was less than villain's in case #2 (to avoid the SnG Wiz error of "he still has chips so he's fine") and it STILL said to shove basically the same range (maybe 3% lower).

 

[WiZZiM]

#1 your edge is a little on the high side. drop it back to about .20

The range you put the player on is kind of suspect, i highly doubt that's going to be correct, but it's your read.

If you want to model this situation for when it becomes 4 handed, i belive you will find this will be a shove. And again, tone back the edge a lot, and it will probably be at around ~80% would be a decent shoving range, 100% if the guy is only calling 13%, but i feel it's more like 15-19% usually.

#2The range in this one is a bit silly, too. he's never calling 100% here, but i think he is calling really wide.

You can see though, were only shoving in top 50% of hands in that spot. K2s, plays really well against a calling range of 100%, it actually plays better than pocket 2's, it's the bubble, we already have 200 invested, and since there's a chance he folds a few speculative hands like 23 o etc.

You can poker stove how K2s, plays against a range of 100%, you might be suprised at the findings, but i think we have plenty of equity, and we will often be a 60/40 favourtie to make the money, throw in a touch of Fold equity in the mix, and your range should widen slightly.

 

[jaded848]

#2The range in this one is a bit silly, too. he's never calling 100% here, but i think he is calling really wide.

You can see though, were only shoving in top 50% of hands in that spot. K2s, plays really well against a calling range of 100%, it actually plays better than pocket 2's, it's the bubble, we already have 200 invested, and since there's a chance he folds a few speculative hands like 23 o etc.

You can poker stove how K2s, plays against a range of 100%, you might be suprised at the findings, but i think we have plenty of equity, and we will often be a 60/40 favourtie to make the money, throw in a touch of Fold equity in the mix, and your range should widen slightly.

Right, I just used 100% for the point of an argument, it's interesting though that K2s does play decently well against alot of hands.

 

[WiZZiM]

It's funny, you will see in some spots using SNG Wizard, the range will be like 44+ K6s+, so Khigh type hand strength plays better against looser calling ranges than a hand like pocket threes. When you think about it, it makes sense. a hand like 22 is always going to be a coinflip, as most players will fold out hands like 23 off. but a hand like K6s, can be a 60/40 favourite agaainst a lot of hands.