$2 NLHE STT Turbo: Standard shove HU?

[jaded848]

$2 NL HE STT Turbo: Standard shove HU?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 26/13/10

So I'm just wondering if this was a standard play during HU of a SnG 9 man turbo. The only catch is that the hand immediately before, I shoved on the 3rd place finisher with 56o and he called with K9o (I hit 5's to knock him out). I'm wondering if I should have tightened my range temporarily after blatantly showing that I was loose to my remaining opponent. He waited a long time before making this call....

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 300/600 Blinds (2 handed) - Full-Tilt Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
BB (t6820)
Hero (SB) (t6680)
Hero's M: 7.42
Preflop: Hero is SB with 4

, K

Hero bets t6680 (All-In), BB calls t6080
Flop: (t13360) 9

, 8

, 9

(2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: (t13360) J

(2 players, 1 all-in)
River: (t13360) 10

(2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: t13360

 

[WiZZiM]

he probably calls you wide, but you have king high. shove it in.

 

[tomh7795]

I think this is fairly marginal. Put it in sngwiz. I think it's a push but it's marginal. I would put it In sngwiz but I'm not on my com. If no one does it I'll do it later

 

[jaded848]

he probably calls you wide, but you have king high. shove it in.

Along that note, are there any general rules for HU strategy in turbos when the blinds are high? Generally this is what I do:

-Shove very wide on the button (any A, K, Q8+, J8+, suited connectors 56+, unsuited connectors 89+, any pocket pair)
-Call a tighter range (A7+, KT+, QJ+, any pocket pair)
-Call a wider range when I have 2-1 or better chip lead on my opponent

 

[tomh7795]

Along that note, are there any general rules for HU strategy in turbos when the blinds are high? Generally this is what I do:

-Shove very wide on the button (any A, K, Q8+, J8+, suited connectors 56+, unsuited connectors 89+, any pocket pair)
-Call a tighter range (A7+, KT+, QJ+, any pocket pair)
-Call a wider range when I have 2-1 or better chip lead on my opponent

this is just the obv way to play. We have 11 bb which is more then normal. I might be 2.5x it instead of shoving.

 

[WiZZiM]

errr. "it depends" on stack size. his percieved calling range, and his percieved shoving range.. so if his calling range is 30% we can shove with 70% or whatever.. if he calls looser, then we should shove tighter. just treat it like a sb v bb situation. shove lots from the sb, some guys will be so tight you can shove anytwo, until they finally get down to no chips and when you do get called. your racing with their money.. my main goal is obviously to win. but to win quickly, so i can finish my set and load another one.

what youve written seems fine, but youll need to adjust it based on the opponant your up against..

 

[WiZZiM]

and yes, tom is right actually... im thinking about pokerstars structure, where there is an ante. here there isnt. so shoving is a little more marginal that i once thought.. i still like shoving though.. its one of those weird situations though, if he calls us really wide. like 50% then this shove would be good. if he calls us really tight like 20% then this shove is good. if he calls anywhere in between its more marginal. but its pretty much neutral so i lean toward the aggressive side. plus, i want the sng to end quickly..

 

[tomh7795]

I know where you know sb vs bb but I've seen some players play very tight at heads up. I might 2.5x it and if I lost that hand then start pushing wide. If you won it then your opp will have a stack where we can start pushing. But to be honest i'll push it preflop.

 

[jaded848]

Couple things-

I'm a bit confused about that graph. Isn't it suggesting that if he's shoving 50%, I can only shove 40% (which does not include K4o)? Still, if I might rephrase what you're saying to see if I understand, basically the K4o is good if hes really tight because he will fold and if hes really loose because we have a good chance of being ahead.

I'm not sure how I feel about raising to 2.5x. To be honest, mostly everyone plays these end stages the same, and a 2.5x raise will result in either a fold/shove by my opponent. If I plan on calling his shove, then I might as well have shoved myself, and if I have a marginal hand (which will be the majority of the time) then I will be in a tough spot with zero fold equity left. I will essentially be giving him the button. Furthermore, a 2.5x raise is 1500, meaning if he reraises me and resteals the blinds just once or twice I'm already in the shoving zone anyway...

 

[WiZZiM]

what it tells us is what we can shove. vs his calling range..

so if he is calling us with 0% we can shove 100%

if he calls us with 50% we can shove 40%

if he calls us with 100% we can shove ~55%

but yes, basically its just an interesting graph that shows how you can adjust calling ranges in this specific example.. it gets better the more hands past 40% he calls us with as we are ahead of a lot more.. but we prefer him to be much tighter, as the graph suggests.

 

[jaded848]

what it tells us is what we can shove. vs his calling range..

so if he is calling us with 0% we can shove 100%

if he calls us with 50% we can shove 40%

if he calls us with 100% we can shove ~55%

Ok that's what I thought, but you said we would be good if he's calling 50% although K4o lies outside of the 40% range. Either way though, I understand that it's a marginal difference.

 

[WiZZiM]

yer, its pretty much neutral tbh. any time its close. ill just go with the more aggressive route. and oh yeah i did.. sorry i wasnt reading the graph, that was just off the top of my head. i figured the wider he calls us it gets a little better.. but your right. again though, still not a huge mistake.

 

[tomh7795]

and yes, tom is right actually... im thinking about pokerstars structure, where there is an ante. here there isnt. so shoving is a little more marginal that i once thought.. i still like shoving though.. its one of those weird situations though, if he calls us really wide. like 50% then this shove would be good. if he calls us really tight like 20% then this shove is good. if he calls anywhere in between its more marginal. but its pretty much neutral so i lean toward the aggressive side. plus, i want the sng to end quickly..

lemme just look at that again. Tom is actually right. Am I seeing things? I still think pushing is the best way.

We all don't play 30 tbls like u.

 

[WiZZiM]

the more tables i have the better. im less likely to get distracted, and i get into the zone.. if i only have like 6 tables i get bored waiting for action. probably A.D.D or something haha

 

[tomh7795]

Do you stack or tile? I play 8ish. Recently I've only been on 4. Due to a downswing and wanting to check my moves more carfully.

 

[WiZZiM]

i used to tile 15.. then recently changed to stacking.. i didnt like it at first, as its harder to keep notes. but with the changes to the hand replayer and note system in stars, it's much easier. so now i just stack them.. if i had a bigger screen or two screens id tile again.

 

[jaded848]

I don't see how you guys possibly keep notes when you have 15 tables popping up at you every few seconds. I play 2 tables and toward the end stages I feel rushed...3 tables and I get overwhelmed.

 

[tomh7795]

If you struggle try getting tableninja. I don't use that but I can cope with 8 fairly easy. I can play 14 at cash. But haven't played cash for a while.