$2 NLHE STT Turbo: 99 on the bubble in the SB facing limp and raise from big stack

[jaded848]

$2 NL HE STT Turbo: 99 on the bubble in the SB facing limp and raise from big stack

Had there not been a limper, I would have been tempted to shove this, as villain's raising range as the big stack would have been pretty wide. However, the raise over the limper indicated decent strength to me, so I folded since it was the bubble and there was an equal stack present (still in the hand, potential for him to be knocked out right here). Right play?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 120/240 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
BB (t4010)
UTG (t1720)
Button (t6190)
Hero (SB) (t1580)
Hero's M: 4.39
Preflop: Hero is SB with 9

, 9

UTG calls t240, Button bets t960, 2 folds, UTG calls t720
Flop: (t2280) 7

, 6

, 2

(2 players)
UTG bets t760 (All-In), Button calls t760
Turn: (t3800) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)
River: (t3800) A

(2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: t3800

 

[bgomez89]

not the right play. You definitely should have shoved this. You only have 6 bbs, button's raise could probably just be a steal or over cards, and keep in mind limpers=free money(people are not always limping with AA/KK etc) and most of the time will fold to shoves and when they dont fold it's usually small pairs, Arag suited, KTs/KJs etc.

One thing i've noticed in some of your posts is that it seems your always scared on the bubble. We're not looking just to cash, we're playing to win. You have to gamble, especially in turbos, if you want to make money.

 

[jaded848]

not the right play. You definitely should have shoved this. You only have 6 bbs, button's raise could probably just be a steal or over cards, and keep in mind limpers=free money(people are not always limping with AA/KK etc) and most of the time will fold to shoves and when they dont fold it's usually small pairs, Arag suited, KTs/KJs etc.

One thing i've noticed in some of your posts is that it seems your always scared on the bubble. We're not looking just to cash, we're playing to win. You have to gamble, especially in turbos, if you want to make money.

It has come to be my understanding that this is not actually the best theory to approach these games. The goal is first to cash, and then to win. I forget where I got the link from, but somewhere on these forums someone linked this: http://www.thehendonmob.com/poker_tips/bubble_play_nine_handed_sit_gos

It's a post by Howard Lederer on 9 handed SnG play, and he describes why bubbling is pretty much the worst result you can have, as you are putting a significant amount of equity at risk. One you are ITM, then it's time to gamble.

"In these structures, the initial goal is always to cash. Once you've cashed, the goal is to go for the win." -Lederer

Maybe some other CC members can offer their insight?

 

[bgomez89]

oh i see. maybe its different for STTs but i still stand by what i said on shoving

 

[PoKeRFoRNiA]

Fold. UTG limp, Button raises, there is no way you're gonna get people to fold and win the pot uncontested. You're winning by a showdown and you're coin-flipping this at best, especially with bb, limped utg, and original raiser to act. 99 no good in this spot. When UTG limped and button raises to 960, that pretty much puts utg in shove/fold mode. He's likely to bust out. 99 no good in this spot.

 

[WiZZiM]

Seems fine i think. I think your correct in assuming his range is probably stronger after a limp, he probably raises worse pairs, so it's kind of close, but generally were flipping against something like KQ AJ and as you know, we hate flipping on the bubble, and since UTG limped, theres a chance he gets it in, which is great for us too.


As for lederers thing, i think it was in the FT academy, hes correct in what hes saying, but, while bubbling is the worst result you can have. It isnt the worst thing you can have, If your not bubbling a fair bit in these thigns your doing something wrong. so really, it isnt so bad when you think about it, at least your putting yourself into bubble spots.

But hes right in waht hes saying, we want to cash first, then first.

Put this situation into WIZ and see how stack size affects your decision.

 

[jh1spartanfan]

I say fold, it just looks like their are going to be to many cards that can beat you and at best your probably getting a coin flip.