$2 NLHE STT: 2 Pair on very dangerous board.

[seanDCFC]

I considered this to be an easy fold but I'd like to know if there is any argument to be made for making the call or shoving here. It is still eary so I folded and desided to wait for a better spot, but I would like to know your thoughts on this hand.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Button (t1665)
SB (t1335)
BB (t1425)
UTG (t1455)
MP (t1785)
Hero (CO) (t1335)
Hero's M: 29.67
Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, 9

2 folds, Hero bets t100, Button calls t100, SB calls t85, 1 fold
Flop: (t330) 10

, 9

, K

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t165, Button calls t165, 1 fold
Turn: (t660) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t660, Hero??

 

[Jillychemung]

1) Fold preflop, these ragged broadwayish hands just get you into trouble.

2) On the flop you have to make a decision right here to either stack with it or not. You are going to have so many draws playing against you here that you either play this very passively and hope to get to showdown cheaply or shove on this flop.

3) As played, fold, the only Kx hand that you beat that might get here is AK and you are drawing to at most 4 outs on any other made hand.

 

[vanquish]

why did u make such a tiny bet on such a drawy flop

 

[atlantafalcons0]

1. Fold preflop.

2. shove the flop.

 

[c9h13no3]

2. shove the flop.

Wat?

 

[seanDCFC]

why did u make such a tiny bet on such a drawy flop

I wanted action, but obviously I should not let people see cards as cheaply as I did on such a drawy flop. I'll just fold this hand preflop from now on.

 

[OzExorcist]

Wat?

IIRC (it's been a while since I've played a $2 game) players at this level are bad enough that if we shove we can expect to get called by all sorts of draws (including gutshots), Kx, T9, AA/QQ/JJ, pairs + draws, even stuff like AT as well as the KT / set / made straight hands that beat us. Against that range we do OK...

.

..

...but if we just fold the hand preflop like we're supposed to we don't need to bother working that out.

 

[c9h13no3]

IIRC (it's been a while since I've played a $2 game) players at this level are bad enough that if we shove we can expect to get called by all sorts of draws (including gutshots)

Um, wow. Okay, wat retracted...

I just assumed the postflop play was similar to $2NL, but apparently its far worse. I don't think anyone at 2NL is calling a flop shove with a gutter ball.

 

[dmorris68]

I don't think anyone at 2NL is calling a flop shove with a gutter ball.

Really??? I've never played 2NL but I've certainly seen it on occasion at 25NL and even 50NL. And 100NL on bodog plays about like 10NL on Stars/Tilt.

Last night I was playing a $13 90-man KO and shoved 15bb with 99 against an UTG 80/60 limper who called with Q9o. And binked a Q. People take shots at higher stakes than they should and do all sorts of stupid stuff. Usually against me. And win.

(or so it seems, I'm just whining)

And to the OP, just fold pre.

 

[REI53]

1) Raise pf
2) Shove flop

 

[MrEpic94]

shove the flop.

so many draws and so many terrible chasers at this stake that we need to get our money in with good equity.

or atleast pot the flop. Personally I would pot the flop as shoving never really entered my thoughts until I read this thread.

also, fold it pre.

 

[Hofmaster]

a, raise it pre flop or fold

b, protec your hand more aggressive for drawing hands, just a blank card would help you.

 

[WiZZiM]

I'd suspect that the raise preflop is a touch loose. If you had a read that all 3 players behind you were tight, then you can maybe open it. But overall k9o seems a tad weak to open.

On the flop shoving is a bit silly. however you do need to make it a lot more, probably close to a pot bet, so you can shove most non club turns. Shoving, we still don't chase off any draws, they will still call, so i'd prefer to see the turn before committing the rest of my chips.