$2 NLHE MTT Turbo: HH Daily Turbo $2 check-raise or just check-call?

E

ElmerS

Rising Star
(100/200-25) I got Qc Tc
UTG (8657) folds
UTG+1 (13299) raises to 400
MP (8873) folds
CO (7996) folds
BTN (29700) folds
hero SB (9775) calls 300
BB (8743) calls 200

Flop (pot: 1375)

Ts, Jc, 6c

SB checks
BB checks
UTG bets 688
Hero raises 2064
BB calls
UTG folds

Turn (pot: 6191)

2d

Hero bets all-in (7331)

Did I played it to agressive?
 
E

eetenor

Legend
Awards
1
(100/200-25) I got Qc Tc
UTG (8657) folds
UTG+1 (13299) raises to 400
MP (8873) folds
CO (7996) folds
BTN (29700) folds
hero SB (9775) calls 300
BB (8743) calls 200

Flop (pot: 1375)

Ts, Jc, 6c

SB checks
BB checks
UTG bets 688
Hero raises 2064
BB calls
UTG folds

Turn (pot: 6191)

2d

Hero bets all-in (7331)

Did I played it to agressive?

Thank you for posting

The answer to your question relies on what action did you want your V to take when you shoved?

Standard players fold everything weaker than our hand and call with everything stronger when we shove this turn.

Standard players seldom fold top pair at this stake level but your shove should be targeting some Jx hands that may fold. If they do not fold any JX but do fold all Ax flush draws KQ off etc then the shove is too aggro.

Hope this helps.
:):)
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

Legend
I think raising here on 40ish BB with 2nd pair and a flush draw isn't the worst play in the world - but I would like this much more if we were sub 30bb deep. When we raise, get called and then jam turn we are pretty well only getting called by better hands - its fine to go broke shallow stacked with a marginal made hand or very strong draw, but not so much on a medium-large stack. Especially since this is a multiway pot, I would be more inclined to just put in the call and see a turn trying to get to showdown with my 10 as cheaply as possible or hope to make my flush. Plus our hand is likely NEVER good if we raise and the BB or UTG villan jam all in on our check raise - in a multiway pot this is almost never a bluff and we are drawing slim at best.

That being said, if you are going to raise here - I love your flop sizing and love the turn jam - Ax of clubs never folding - and we are doing well vs those sorts of hands, worse flush draws never folding flop either, Jx is in a really rough spot with only a single pair - KQ with a club can't fold - we get value from quite a bit - and in a situation where we are going to commit so much of our remaining stack on the flop, setting up a 1:1 spr on the turn, no reason to not jam it in here. You would play sets this way, two pair this way, top top this way, and you balance those value holdings with flush draws, combo draws, straight draws - remember when we are check raising you have to stay balanced - just keep your bluffs more in line as semi bluffs, meaning don't just go crazy and raise with no equity, always leave yourself a way to improve and win the hand.
Anyhow, keep your check raises balanced...its the same concept with 3 betting - what do I mean? Well, if you are only doing it for value and never as a bluff (or semi bluff) - then you are going to be sooooo easy to play against. I only call you with my absolute strongest hands, and fold everything else.

So in conclusion - 40bb+ I would lean more towards just calling and playing the hand accordingly - not many turns I'd ever consider folding so be ready to call 2 streets.

30bb or less - I would go the more aggressive route and check raise as you did, and jam all turn cards.

30-39bb you can mix and be just fine. Closer I am to 40bb, the more likely I am to just call.

Hope this is helpful
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
Calling from SB is always way worse than calling from BB, because you are getting a worse price, and you are not even closing action. This one is close, but personally I probably just fold QTs, when the open is coming from this early and from someone, who have me covered. We are not making a lot of chips by calling here if any at all, and 3-betting also seem a bit optimistic.

Flop
The reason why, we play draws aggressively, is to get fold equity, but when we also have a decent pair, that is a lot less valuable. They are never folding a hand like top pair, and the hands, that do fold, typically dont have many outs against you, since some of their outs will make you a flush. So typically a hand like this play much better as a check-call, which also keep you better balanced.

Turn
I dont think, you can get him to fold a better hand like top pair, and he is not calling with worse hands either, when you overbet jam. So by taking this line you are almost forcing him to play well, which is not something, we want to do in poker. I would check to him and hope, he check back. If he make a small bet, you can call, but if he jam, you need to consider folding.
 
E

eetenor

Legend
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That being said, if you are going to raise here - I love your flop sizing and love the turn jam - Ax of clubs never folding - and we are doing well vs those sorts of hands, worse flush draws never folding flop either, Jx is in a really rough spot with only a single pair - KQ with a club can't fold - we get value from quite a bit - and in a situation where we are going to commit so much of our remaining stack on the flop, setting up a 1:1 spr on the turn, no reason to not jam it in here. You would play sets this way, two pair this way, top top this way, and you balance those value holdings with flush draws, combo draws, straight draws - remember when we are check raising you have to stay balanced - just keep your bluffs more in line as semi bluffs, meaning don't just go crazy and raise with no equity, always leave yourself a way to improve and win the hand.
Anyhow, keep your check raises balanced...its the same concept with 3 betting - what do I mean? Well, if you are only doing it for value and never as a bluff (or semi bluff) - then you are going to be sooooo easy to play against. I only call you with my absolute strongest hands, and fold everything

Hope this is helpful


Great points.

The following is for the original poster

In order for the above strategies to be effective at these stakes our V need to respond as stated above.

It may be of value to gather data to see if our V are playing in the above manner. If they are not, then we need not be balanced. If our V play a highly exploitable style then we play exploit strat 90% of the time or more.

What does that mean in this spot?
We may choose to not include marginal made hands with good redraws in our check raise flop shove turn OOP mid stack range as a balance for stronger hands.

Why?
Stack size. As stated above we want to protect this stack. When we have a skill advantage in a tournament it means we do not want to get all-in with marginal made hands as we will often have higher equity opportunities vs these V types.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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