$2 NLHE MTT: 77

Status
Not open for further replies.
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
for the final time, you shove pre because,
a large portion of the time the initial raiser folds, thus giving us fold equity.
when he calls our hand still has fine equity against his range.
when the short stack calls and the raiser folds we have great equity against his range + dead money in the pot.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
showing the table how you butchered this hand didnt win you the tournament, playing against terrible players did.
 
calicard

calicard

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Total posts
644
Chips
0
for the final time, you shove pre because,
a large portion of the time the initial raiser folds, thus giving us fold equity.
when he calls our hand still has fine equity against his range.
when the short stack calls and the raiser folds we have great equity against his range + dead money in the pot.
I'm not after a large portion I'm after 100 percent. If i was the guy in the SB or BB with the amount of chips I had sure I would shove. But there was no reason to get involved with such a weak hand Might as well shove with 67 and hope he folds. Or leave in 8th place.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
No, 67 is not 77, how you can say this and then talk of stealing to victory is beyond me.
 
calicard

calicard

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Total posts
644
Chips
0
showing the table how you butchered this hand didnt win you the tournament, playing against terrible players did.
Every one has got to be a terrible player huh. That is your mentality. You really have no clue do you? Do you know that 77 is a shitty hand or do you even care? And by calling other players terrible I hope you final tabled the wsop or some other huge Tourney or your a just fool who needs to look in the mirror at who he's calling terrible. If you have Final Tabled thge WSOP my humble apologies but I think not
 
D

doomasiggy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Total posts
1,915
Chips
0
You are right and I had a conversation with him before I tossed my hand. After he bet the flop I stated. "I have you beat but you are such a donk you will call with whatever you have hoping to suck out." Then I waited and tossed and showed my 77. That move right there helped me win this MTT after that if I raised players dropped. I stole my way to a huge chip lead. with out once having to go to a showdwn till the last player.

What?

If thought you had him beat then you definitely should've shoved because that's free money. I don't understand the logic here. You're afraid he'll suck you out? So what if he does? That just means he's a fool who got lucky. If he's really as loose as you think he might fold preflop, thinking the shove has him beat. If he calls then you're likely still ahead. The fact that you won doesn't mean much, because you could've won for many reasons. Luck, or skill. But the fact that you folded here means that you missed a good opportunity to double up and have it easier for the rest of the tournament. Also the fact that people folded after you raised means literally nothing. Frankly, if you had been on other peoples tables and done that, they would have c-bet and reraised you all night, simply because you showed that you were limp-folding good hands when you were small stacked.

Every one has got to be a terrible player huh. That is your mentality. You really have no clue do you? Do you know that 77 is a shitty hand or do you even care? And by calling other players terrible I hope you final tabled the WSOP or some other huge Tourney or your a just fool who needs to look in the mirror at who he's calling terrible. If you have Final Tabled thge WSOP my humble apologies but I think not

The range of poker players isn't limited to people who win the World Series and people who don't. That's like, in football (soccer if you're american) saying that a professional champions league player is automatically shit because he doesn't play in the Prem. He isn't, it's just that people who play in the Prem are great. And what people are trying to explain is that in this situation 77 isn't a shitty hand, it's a good hand.
 
Last edited:
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
67 has the same value as 77

77 has 66% equity against his range of "literally any two cards"
67 has 42% equity against that same range...

Im not the best player on this forum by a long shot, but at least i can take advice without responding like a 5 year old.
 
calicard

calicard

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Total posts
644
Chips
0
What?

If thought you had him beat then you definitely should've shoved because that's free money. I don't understand the logic here. You're afraid he'll suck you out? So what if he does? That just means he's a fool who got lucky. If he's really as loose as you think he might fold preflop, thinking the shove has him beat. If he calls then you're likely still ahead. The fact that you won doesn't mean much, because you could've won for many reasons. Luck, or skill. But the fact that you folded here means that you missed a good opportunity to double up and have it easier for the rest of the tournament. Also the fact that people folded after you raised means literally nothing. Frankly, if you had been on other peoples tables and done that, they would have c-bet and reraised you all night, simply because you showed that you were limp-folding good hands when you were small stacked.
How the heck do you call that short stacked have you even read the hand positions stack sizes?
And why do you say other tables are you too saying these players were terrible and they all just got extremely lucky outlasting 81 other players.
How many times have you been in the money ? Are you a million from playing poker? Are you the best player you ever met?
 
D

doomasiggy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Total posts
1,915
Chips
0
67 has the same value as 77

Because of the possibility of making a straight. Post flop its equity drops way down. It's the same with AKs, with AKs you can make the nut straight/nut flush, but after the flop it's equity drops to about twenty percent assuming you've got a pair.

How the heck do you call that short stacked have you even read the hand positions stack sizes?
And why do you say other tables are you too saying these players were terrible and they all just got extremely lucky outlasting 81 other players.
How many times have you been in the money ? Are you a million from playing poker? Are you the best player you ever met?

I didn't say short stacked, I said you had a small stack, 13 bigs is not that much, and it's not a stack size you can play around with.
No, I'm not saying these players were terrible, I'm saying they made the wrong decision not to c-bet and reraise you most of the time you flat called. By doing what you did you showed a huge weakness in your game.
I get in the money most of the time I play tournaments. I haven't won on pokerstars but on the site I usually play on, betfred, I usually win about 60% of the time. No I'm not a millionaire from playing poker, but there is a big difference from being a millionaire poker player and the rest of us. Millionaire poker players are usually the best of the best of the best. Go one stage down there are the people who make their livings through the game, then there are the highly skilled amateurs, then there are the various ranks of amateur players.

And I don't need to be great to point out that what you did was wrong. Poker is basically a mathematical equation, you had decent equity against a wide range of his hands, so absent of a read on him that suggests to you that he's got a better hand than you have you should've shoved, because you would've gone from having 13 bb to having 26, and thus wouldn't have been under threat of being blinded out.
 
Last edited:
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
I'm not after a large portion I'm after 100 percent. If i was the guy in the SB or BB with the amount of chips I had sure I would shove. But there was no reason to get involved with such a weak hand Might as well shove with 67 and hope he folds. Or leave in 8th place.

so what? you fold down to their stack size before you play hands.
what range exactly would you be shoving, AA, KK QQ AK JJ? because none of those hands are 100% to win,
 
calicard

calicard

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Total posts
644
Chips
0
77 has 66% equity against his range of "literally any two cards"
67 has 42% equity against that same range...

Im not the best player on this forum by a long shot, but at least i can take advice without responding like a 5 year old.

Trying to figure out what a player is raising with unless you are psychic is stupid general rule to follow if he raises out him on a tier 1 or 2 hand. If you think oh he's a jack ass I will shove with my 22 I know I have him beat that is stupid. Tier 1 or 2 hands are what I play All in nothing else period unless I am in serious dire straights. I have no problem taking advice if that advice were helpful but the advice to shove here with a shitty hand is stupid
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
How the heck do you call that short stacked have you even read the hand positions stack sizes?
And why do you say other tables are you too saying these players were terrible and they all just got extremely lucky outlasting 81 other players.
How many times have you been in the money ? Are you a million from playing poker? Are you the best player you ever met?

13bb= short stack,
100bb= deep enough to flat and set mine
13 = 100???

feel free to be a baby and look up everyone elses stats who disagrees with you.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
Trying to figure out what a player is raising with unless you are psychic is stupid general rule to follow if he raises out him on a tier 1 or 2 hand. If you think oh he's a jack ass I will shove with my 22 I know I have him beat that is stupid. Tier 1 or 2 hands are what I play All in nothing else period unless I am in serious dire straights. I have no problem taking advice if that advice were helpful but the advice to shove here with a shitty hand is stupid

that is why use what is calling a range of possible hands he could have. as you said he could literally have any two cards in an earlier post, those are our equities against his range of any any two cards. if you tighten up his calling range you will still never find this to be an unprofitable shove,
because the tighter his range of calls, the higher frequency of folds we get. thus earning us more money on average.
results of individual hands dont matter, our aim is to maximise our return on each hand on average.
 
calicard

calicard

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Total posts
644
Chips
0
that is why use what is calling a range of possible hands he could have. as you said he could literally have any two cards in an earlier post, those are our equities against his range of any any two cards. if you tighten up his calling range you will still never find this to be an unprofitable shove,
because the tighter his range of calls, the higher frequency of folds we get. thus earning us more money on average.
results of individual hands dont matter, our aim is to maximise our return on each hand on average.
You just wanted me to look up your stats because you are proud of them huh.
I wanted to win more than $2 after playing for 2 hours. 77 was not going to do it for ME sorry.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
You just wanted me to look up your stats because you are proud of them huh.
I wanted to win more than $2 after playing for 2 hours. 77 was not going to do it for ME sorry.

Not really, more i thought it was incredibly rude and childish to resort to looking other players up who were quite politely and genuinely trying to help.
 
duggs

duggs

Killing me softly
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Total posts
9,512
Awards
2
Chips
0
" I wanted to win more than $2 after playing for 2 hours. 77 was not going to do it for ME sorry."

seriously, you minimize your return by folding in such a +EV spot that in the long run you effectively lit a few dollars on fire.
 
calicard

calicard

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Total posts
644
Chips
0
Not really, more i thought it was incredibly rude and childish to resort to looking other players up who were quite politely and genuinely trying to help.

I use facts to base my decisions on. The more facts I have the better my decisions will be. To me taking advice from a player who has nearly lost his house is not an option.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
let's all just agree that calicard is a horrible player and leave it at that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top