$2 NLHE: JJ vs. possible steal - raise or push?

[Falloooooon]

$2 NL HE: JJ vs. possible steal - raise or push?

Hero's stack is pretty mediocre. No reads on opponent. I wonder if my raise is ok or if a push is called for here. Then what to do with the resulting flop given that I only put in a raise.

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HAND #1
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Full Tilt, $2.25 Buy-in (25/50 blinds) NL Hold'em Sit'N'Go, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

SB: 585 (11.7 bb)
Hero (BB): 1,535 (30.7 bb)
UTG+2: 1,732 (34.6 bb)
MP1: 8,243 (164.9 bb)
MP2: 1,145 (22.9 bb)
MP3: 1,608 (32.2 bb)
CO: 5,120 (102.4 bb)
BTN: 4,750 (95 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BB with

5 folds, BTN raises to 150, SB folds, Hero raises to 500, BTN calls 350

Flop: (1,025)

(2 players)

 

[KMC1828]

i don't understand these stack sizes. this is the 3rd level in the tournament, how are people having 8k, 5k, and 4.7k when there's still 8 people left? is this one of those doublestack 90man SnGs?

 

[Falloooooon]

Well, it's an MTT. There were a lot more than 8 people left. I guess that with table changes and stuff I got to a table that had some guys who were scooping big pots early. And based on what I saw after this hand, with some more time than I had for this play to gather some reads, those guys were mixing it up quite a bit and had no hesitation about getting it all in there preflop.

The HH says SNG because it was a 180 man multitable SNG.

 

[SONIC589]

considering it was fairly early in the tournament and you didn't have any reads I would have just checked and saw the flop. With the A coming on the flop I would have proceeded cautiously.

Based on the fact that you reraised preflop to 500. I would have just pushed rather than raising 1/3 of my stack.

 

[Jillychemung]

Agree you needed to shove preflop here. As played you have to give up on this hand. Opponents hand range is too loaded with Ace combos and you won't be able to push opponent off any Ace that would raise and then call a 3-bet.

 

[aznman08]

you have to fold. his calling range pf is high, and you dont have any reads to help you justify shoving on the flop

 

[Poker Orifice]

If your raise preflop is equal to 1/3 or more of your stack here (and considering it's a $2'r) you should just shove it ALLIN preflop.

As is... check the flop. If villain is on TT- then they may check behind fearing a check-raise... but more likely will fire a bet to which you'll have to fold to.

 

[Falloooooon]

With some more time to think on it and after reading the responses here (thanks for those), I think now that I needed to shove preflop. As is, with my stack as it was, when he called, the pot was big enough that any further bet would have to be all in or close enough to certainly commit myself to the pot. And with , the chance of overs coming and having no idea where I am after the flop is too high.

 

[silverslugger33]

Well, at this point you really can't beat very much. Maybe they have pocket 10s, but that's pretty much all you can beat. Their range of hands pretty much all contain an ace other than pocket pairs, but the only pocket pairs they're likely to call a reraise with are 10s or higher, so your losing to most of the range. I'd check and hope they try to slowplay and let you hit a jack.

 

[Falloooooon]

I think my reraise was pretty light, and at the $2, a guy with that size stack stands an ok chance of calling just to see if he hits so he can make me go bust.

I agree that as played, checking the flop is probably the right call. I did in fact shove, and he folded. You can see my thread in the general forum about players' weaknesses to see why I shoved. It happened to work this time, so he either had a pair or maybe something suited or connecting.

 

[cjay142]

I'd def say shove it pre mainly because I EFFING HATE PLAYING JJ OOP (leak #378)

If you're gonna raise 1/3 pre then you might as well put it in.

 

[LizzyJ]

Played as is: fold. The way I would have played it: re-steal and shove PF.

 

[ABorges]

Preflop is good, it's a 2$ tournament so his calling range is gonna be wide and not just good aces. Most people don't realize just how important stack sizes really are. He can't profitably call with a random hand like 88, QJs, KQo, because you left yourself one potsized bet behind and you're presumably strong, forcing him to fold like the 70% flops he misses. He's in a position where he has to push or fold and he called - you just got him to make a mistake, so you're doing good so far!

One thing you have to realize, if you then give up on flops that have an overcard to your JJ then you have screwed up, you'll be bluffed off your hand too much by stuff like suited connectors he couldn't let go preflop. Against most people I'm not considering folding after I 3bet and with a stack this shallow. So your question should be: how do I extract the most out of stuff I beat on this flop?

Pretty simple really, there are no draws whatsoever, so there's no need to protect your hand. Betting for value won't get you called by much that you beat. Therefore you should check to induce a bluff. Then you stick all your chips in the middle and chalk it up to bad luck when he has an ace.

Hope this helps, people tend to give up too much in this kind of spot.

 

[LuckyChippy]

I'm leaning towards agreeing with Borges. People do give up too easily in this situation, though i would have shoved pre-flop still.

On the button heads-up with his stack, he'll be rasing then calling very, very wide. People are assuming he's at the top of his range when he most probably isn't. A hand like KQs is quite likely.