$2 NL HE MTT: Tough one at Semi-Final Table

[dallam]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

2

Game Options

1. Turbo

Currency

$

Highest 20.7bb, Smallest 1bb. The average is 8.4bb.
Next payjump at eleventh.

Villain goes all-in with 3.6bbs
Hero has 11.4bbs
SB has: 1.3bbs
BB has: 15.7bbs

Hero has 77. Also standing 5/14 at the moment.

I'm wondering that do you consider this as an ICM decision as well?
How SB-BB affect this flip-situation in your opinion?

Thanks for the discussion!

 

[300HPGOD]

I'd start out with we can never just call here. This is a jam over spot or a fold spot. Next is figuring out how much the pay jump or potential pay jumps mean to you. Thats one where you have to make that call on the importance to your bankroll and personal feeling. If you look at it from just a poker prospective, I believe this is a jam since 77 is too high up on the hand ladder imo to be folding here. We have a good chance of being ahead of the initial jammer and our stack is a large enough chunk of the BBs stack (almost 75%) to deter them from calling with two overcard hands that have equity against us but arent strong hands like Q10, K9 etc meaning their calling range here should be pretty small and they could potentially fold hands like 88 and maybe even 99 that are ahead of us. So here, I would be jamming since its the most +EV chip play. The money payouts for tourneys are always top heavy so if we want to make a good profit from this tournament we should be aiming for the top 3 and its going to be hard to make it to the top 3 if we don't take spots such as this one.

 

[eetenor]

The BB is our only concern here. Yes we will have less equity 3 way vs sb and opener but sb has any two cards and we can lose to them and still make chips by winning the side pot.

We shove here as 300hp said 77 is just to good to fold and if bb folds we will still be live to play more hands regardless of outcome.

 

[dallam]

Thank you guys for the inputs!

I ended up folding this hand which was not the right or wrong decision, since it was obvious we're gonna flipping once I'm calling this down. Opp had A8o this time, and ended up hit the 8. SB called this shove as well, which was kind of obvious considering the dying stack of his.

My main thinking line was to remain close to the bigger stacks on this table, and picking up a spot with even better cards or being the original agressor. The small stacks also had 1-4bbs when it came to FT situation at this point, so I felt myself more secured not flipping my 1/3 stack away - even it was small either way. 77 is very good, but at this point maybe fold is acceptable as well, especially if you trust your small stack game and the rotation of the game, even tho my aim is always to reach the highest, not determine myself only the next payjumps.

So these aspects made it tough. It's a super small stack game here I guess.

You said @300HPGOD that BB shoud overfold here the 88-99 which is totally right I believe. He had the biggest VPIP at the table (30%) which is not that small, not that far from optimal too, might scare me away too this time.

Well, I was happy to see that 8 here cause I was not feeling myself a clown totally by folding.
With this stack and these conditions this time I survived until 7th place if I remember right. I shoved 55 from UTG+1 which was another tricky one since I was last there and pretty card-dead, but stacks were still low and BB with a similar stack called with that same combination: 77.

So once again, thanks for your detailed answers on this one

 

[eetenor]

Thank you guys for the inputs!

I ended up folding this hand which was not the right or wrong decision, since it was obvious we're gonna flipping once I'm calling this down. Opp had A8o this time, and ended up hit the 8. SB called this shove as well, which was kind of obvious considering the dying stack of his.

My main thinking line was to remain close to the bigger stacks on this table, and picking up a spot with even better cards or being the original agressor. The small stacks also had 1-4bbs when it came to FT situation at this point, so I felt myself more secured not flipping my 1/3 stack away - even it was small either way. 77 is very good, but at this point maybe fold is acceptable as well, especially if you trust your small stack game and the rotation of the game, even tho my aim is always to reach the highest, not determine myself only the next payjumps.

So these aspects made it tough. It's a super small stack game here I guess.

You said @300HPGOD that BB shoud overfold here the 88-99 which is totally right I believe. He had the biggest VPIP at the table (30%) which is not that small, not that far from optimal too, might scare me away too this time.

Well, I was happy to see that 8 here cause I was not feeling myself a clown totally by folding.
With this stack and these conditions this time I survived until 7th place if I remember right. I shoved 55 from UTG+1 which was another tricky one since I was last there and pretty card-dead, but stacks were still low and BB with a similar stack called with that same combination: 77.

So once again, thanks for your detailed answers on this one

Future game is something we can use as a guide in spots like this to fold- the only caveat is the idea of how valuable picking up those chips would be to our future game as well. We were flipping so 50% of the time we could be getting top 3 in the tournament just getting those chips - not an easy spot at all but I would still lean to not folding to give me a greater chance to be top 3- it would of course depend on all the game factors -skill level -stack levels- pay jumps- collision factors- blind increases etc.

The key for you here was you decided based on data and future game assumptions not fear so well done you

 

[fundiver199]

I think, its a pretty trivial overjam. We would have prefered to open shove with no prior action, but we are still happy to play a "flip" with 77 against LJs range for his remaining chips + the blinds and antes.

 

[Funtast]

I think, its a pretty trivial overjam.

10x yes.

We would have prefered to open shove with no prior action, but we are still happy to play a "flip" with 77 against LJs range for his remaining chips + the blinds and antes.

I think we are easily ahead of his range.

 

[Matt_Burns88]

I think you can fold here depending on the payout structure. Although you're 3 places from the next pay jump, there are 4 players with 2bb or less. I suspect though that the pay jump is not too significant, so that makes folding not optimal.

Calling is horrendous, because you're committing 1/3 of your stack and face a horrible decision, which isn't really a decision if BB shoves, because you're already committed, so you have no choice but to call off.

Much better to overjam, meaning you have no more decisions to make and you make it much more likely that BB folds. These are the spots you need to take in order to win tournaments. Sure, you'll lose a decent amount of the time, but more often than not, you're going to increase your stack by more than 50%, eliminating a player and becoming chip leader at your table in the process.