$2.20 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Using history with Villain to make a light call

[theANMATOR]

$2.20 1.5k gtd on ACR

blind level 350/700 ante 70

I'm not positive on when this hand happened but it's in this event that has a 5 hour long late registration period, I'm going to guess roughly 1/3 to 1/2 way through.

A pretty aggressive and competent Reg on my direct right in CO opens to 2.5bb 1750 chips, his starting stack is 15.7k, 22.5bb.

I call his raise on the button with suited. I have been playing my game as usual - looking for weak player to exploit. I have a top 10 chip stack of 75k 102bb.

And one of the few players I have marked as a solid/good player in my player pool also makes the call in the bb on a 22k stack, 32bb .

Pot preflop is 6k 7bb

Flop
BB check CO check I check.

Turn comes


Both players check again - so I decide to bet out rather small here 2.5bb 1750 chips into 6k pot.
I chose a small defensive bet because I wanted to be able to read into any re-raise. If the re-raise is large from the bb player it's most likely a made flush or straight. Anything from the aggro player could be anything, but I'd be wary of a small re-raise from the bb player. I don't think the aggro player has a small re-raise weapon in his arsenal.

Surprisingly the aggro player in the CO folds. I say this because he is the type of player that will blast off with any pair representing the nuts. Maybe he's learning!!

The solid Reg in the BB makes the call.

Turn is for a final board of

BB again checks and this is a clear thin value bet in this spot versus this villain. I'm putting him on a missed flush, two pair or possibly a Queen and we will be splitting the pot.

I bet out 3.98bb 2786 chips into the 9500 pot 12bb. I bet small again here because I want him to call. Also - if he decides to get out of line - I can make a manageable call here and not take a massive hit to my stack.

Villain check raises to 9.95 bb, 6965 chips leaving himself about 15bb behind.

Now - I KNOW this player pretty well - I want to think, I know his tendencies and how he plays. I have about 4100 hands on him.

I'm certain - if this player had a flush on this board - he would shove on the river. He will ALWAYS go for max value if he thinks he has the best hand.
Is it possible he has a weak flush and is making this move - I don't think so Tim - I'm confident in my reads on this player. He has thin value bets - but this is certainly not a spot he would do that. In this spot I see him having bluffs and max value bets in this particular spot, - and my read here is he would be going for max value with a flush.

So I still have the same range I assigned to him as mentioned before. It is likely he could be value raising with a Q as well, but I'm solidly confident he does not have a flush.

I make the call and villain turns over

This hand probably isn't that interesting to a lot of members, but it's a good example of how we can build up knowledge on our opponents after playing with them day after day, to be able to make loose calls, thin value bets and play well versus opponents we have familiarity with.

I went on to finish 8th in this tourney out of 675 runners. A nice 20x return on my investment.


Happy Turkey day ya'll! :eating::eating::eating:

 

[Bricxjo]

Nicely played sir, happy turkey day. :icon_sunn

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I dont think, we can ever fold QJs to a CO open, but I have a slight preference for 3-betting, especially when we are the big stack and can apply pressure to him.

Flop
You flopped a gutshot with two overs, and when it checks to you, I would take a stab at it. I dont think, you have any real showdown value with Q high, and by getting aggressive you not only get folds right now, but you also take control of the action, if someone decide to continue.

Turn
You improved to top pair, but on a very wet board. I am fine with betting for value and protection now and also with the sizing.

River
You improved to a straight but on a very wet board, and its not the nut straight, since KQ has a higher straight. I am ok with a thin value bet again basically trying to get called by two pair. When he check-raise small, I am not loving it, but I am not folding either. I think, he would mostly have taken a more aggressive line on the turn with a flush, so while not totally impossible, I will weigh flushes down quite a bit. Which leave KQ as the hand, you mostly lose to, and there could be some chops as well.

Result
Pretty weird line by the opponent not only turning two pair into a bluff on the river, but also using this really small sizing.

 

[jaworek1405]

Hello, If you had some reads on your opponents and everything looks for you that he hasn't a flush, you can call. As played - yeah, I agree with fundiver that with flush on the turn he should play more aggressive, some check/raise or something like that, because if he doesn't play with flush check/raise on the turn he can lose some value in this situation on the river. If I wouldn't have reads on my opponents, I could fold this hand on the river, but firstly I play bigger bet on the turn to know some informations about strenght my hand on the turn. GL

 

[eetenor]

$2.20 1.5k gtd on ACR

blind level 350/700 ante 70

I'm not positive on when this hand happened but it's in this event that has a 5 hour long late registration period, I'm going to guess roughly 1/3 to 1/2 way through.

A pretty aggressive and competent Reg on my direct right in CO opens to 2.5bb 1750 chips, his starting stack is 15.7k, 22.5bb.

I call his raise on the button with suited. I have been playing my game as usual - looking for weak player to exploit. I have a top 10 chip stack of 75k 102bb.

And one of the few players I have marked as a solid/good player in my player pool also makes the call in the bb on a 22k stack, 32bb .

Pot preflop is 6k 7bb

Flop
BB check CO check I check.

Turn comes


Both players check again - so I decide to bet out rather small here 2.5bb 1750 chips into 6k pot.
I chose a small defensive bet because I wanted to be able to read into any re-raise. If the re-raise is large from the bb player it's most likely a made flush or straight. Anything from the aggro player could be anything, but I'd be wary of a small re-raise from the bb player. I don't think the aggro player has a small re-raise weapon in his arsenal.

Surprisingly the aggro player in the CO folds. I say this because he is the type of player that will blast off with any pair representing the nuts. Maybe he's learning!!

The solid Reg in the BB makes the call.

Turn is for a final board of

BB again checks and this is a clear thin value bet in this spot versus this villain. I'm putting him on a missed flush, two pair or possibly a Queen and we will be splitting the pot.

I bet out 3.98bb 2786 chips into the 9500 pot 12bb. I bet small again here because I want him to call. Also - if he decides to get out of line - I can make a manageable call here and not take a massive hit to my stack.

Villain check raises to 9.95 bb, 6965 chips leaving himself about 15bb behind.

Now - I KNOW this player pretty well - I want to think, I know his tendencies and how he plays. I have about 4100 hands on him.

I'm certain - if this player had a flush on this board - he would shove on the river. He will ALWAYS go for max value if he thinks he has the best hand.
Is it possible he has a weak flush and is making this move - I don't think so Tim - I'm confident in my reads on this player. He has thin value bets - but this is certainly not a spot he would do that. In this spot I see him having bluffs and max value bets in this particular spot, - and my read here is he would be going for max value with a flush.

So I still have the same range I assigned to him as mentioned before. It is likely he could be value raising with a Q as well, but I'm solidly confident he does not have a flush.

I make the call and villain turns over

This hand probably isn't that interesting to a lot of members, but it's a good example of how we can build up knowledge on our opponents after playing with them day after day, to be able to make loose calls, thin value bets and play well versus opponents we have familiarity with.

I went on to finish 8th in this tourney out of 675 runners. A nice 20x return on my investment.


Happy Turkey day ya'll! :eating::eating::eating:

Thank you for posting.

The competent reg in the BB makes us lean towards raising pre vs the agg CO. While we do have POS on the table -when the CO C-bets our position changes to being in the middle of two V that have the skills to play well. This over complicates post flop play on the marginal boards that we hit which is the majority of boards that we hit.

As played
The V raised to 9.95 or 9.95 more? If the first- Our river bet sizing was an induce bet
it is an auto call and we take time to decide if we are shoving based on our read of this V.
Shoving has value beyond getting called as we put max pressure on a Q that has some % of folds and when they call they think we are wild for shoving without the flush.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mamkin_Pokerist]

Good game. The most important thing is not to catch a good hand, but to find the person who will give you his chips. I recently read an interesting phrase. If you haven't found a sucker in 30 minutes of the game, then you are the sucker

 

[fundiver199]

I recently read an interesting phrase. If you haven't found a sucker in 30 minutes of the game, then you are the sucker

That is for cash games though, since in tournaments there is no regret, once we bought in. Also 30 minutes is for the slower pace of live games. In online cash games you should be able to find the "sucker" even faster than this. And if you dont, then just sit out and close the table.

 

[theANMATOR]

Preflop
I dont think, we can ever fold QJs to a CO open, but I have a slight preference for 3-betting, especially when we are the big stack and can apply pressure to him.

Flop
You flopped a gutshot with two overs, and when it checks to you, I would take a stab at it. I dont think, you have any real showdown value with Q high, and by getting aggressive you not only get folds right now, but you also take control of the action, if someone decide to continue.


River
You improved to a straight but on a very wet board, and its not the nut straight, since KQ has a higher straight. I am ok with a thin value bet again basically trying to get called by two pair. When he check-raise small, I am not loving it, but I am not folding either. I think, he would mostly have taken a more aggressive line on the turn with a flush, so while not totally impossible, I will weigh flushes down quite a bit. Which leave KQ as the hand, you mostly lose to, and there could be some chops as well.

Result
Pretty weird line by the opponent not only turning two pair into a bluff on the river, but also using this really small sizing.

Thanks for the input FD. Regarding the flop stab - I'm always cautious of ANYONE in the player pool playing any 2 suited cards. It seems this is one of the favored hands by the fishes to play from any position regardless of stack size or state of the event. And although I do not classify either of these players as "those" fish anything is possible. This may be due to the player pool I generally play against though - is that a bad move?
I know eventually when I'm able to move up - I will have to negotiate boards like this more thoughtfully, balancing my bluffing and value betting ranges.

Regarding 3betting preflop - I have no doubt the aggressive Reg on my right would have jammed any marginal Ace holding, so I wanted to take him post flop. I'd 3bet him a standard range if I were to use that versus that opponent.

Regarding River. I did not mention K/Q throughout my post because I discounted it, maybe incorrectly because I think the solid Reg in the bb would have 3bet with that.
However - that is definitely a hand he could have had and min-raised the river to get extra value with.

Regarding odd behavior of solid Reg. I pronounced this villain is a pretty good player. Although the weird play is evidence he makes mistakes and is not as sound of a player as I think he is. I relate this faulty play to the recent run I have seen him on. He's been on a pretty bad streak from what I have witnessed. I do not know this player personally, I think he is one of the solid eastern european players at the micro level. But I have seen him flop top set and lose to runner runner countless times. Hit top boat and get stacked by quads, etc etc. All these terrible beats have been recent. I even got it in bad with him at least twice my KKs beat his flopped set of QQs and one other time where he had the straight on the turn and I rivered the higher nut straight with my GS.
So I think this ill advised play in this one particular hand might be due to his recent misfortunes.

Hello, If you had some reads on your opponents and everything looks for you that he hasn't a flush, you can call. As played - yeah, I agree with fundiver that with flush on the turn he should play more aggressive, some check/raise or something like that, because if he doesn't play with flush check/raise on the turn he can lose some value in this situation on the river. If I wouldn't have reads on my opponents, I could fold this hand on the river, but firstly I play bigger bet on the turn to know some informations about strenght my hand on the turn. GL

Thanks for the suggestion regarding a larger turn bet Jaw.
Do you fold to a raise/shove on the turn?

Thank you for posting.

The competent reg in the BB makes us lean towards raising pre vs the agg CO. While we do have POS on the table -when the CO C-bets our position changes to being in the middle of two V that have the skills to play well. This over complicates post flop play on the marginal boards that we hit which is the majority of boards that we hit.

As played
The V raised to 9.95 or 9.95 more? If the first- Our river bet sizing was an induce bet
it is an auto call and we take time to decide if we are shoving based on our read of this V.
Shoving has value beyond getting called as we put max pressure on a Q that has some % of folds and when they call they think we are wild for shoving without the flush.

Hope this helps.

On the river villain raised to 9.95 up from my tiny hope to be called bet, or as you called it the induce bet. To be honest - inducing a re-raise was not my intention, rather my intention was to be able to attempt a read on him if he did re-raise. I think I accomplished that with this tiny bet, and also unintentionally induced him to bluff re-raise. lol
Thanks for your suggestion on shoving. I never did consider that as an option in this spot.
With my luck I jam and villain would happily call with his weak Queen high flush.

That is for cash games though, since in tournaments there is no regret, once we bought in. Also 30 minutes is for the slower pace of live games. In online cash games you should be able to find the "sucker" even faster than this. And if you dont, then just sit out and close the table.

Uh yeah - cause it's YOU! lol

 

[eetenor]

On the river villain raised to 9.95 up from my tiny hope to be called bet, or as you called it the induce bet. To be honest - inducing a re-raise was not my intention, rather my intention was to be able to attempt a read on him if he did re-raise. I think I accomplished that with this tiny bet, and also unintentionally induced him to bluff re-raise. lol
Thanks for your suggestion on shoving. I never did consider that as an option in this spot.
With my luck I jam and villain would happily call with his weak Queen high flush.

Thank you for responding.

When we bet to get a read we have to use a more clearly defined strong bet size. That sizing is usually half pot or more. That way when we have shown strength and they raise us we can consider increasing our fold frequency vs straight forward players.

As you saw in this spot your sizing could have caused a competent V to think one of two things based on the V's sizing and cards.

1 You were weaker than 2 pair and you would call a hand weaker than 2 pair
2 You would overfold to this sizing.

You stated that you had history with this V- that suggest that they think you have a weakness in your bet sizing choices. That is fine- if we are sizing for the right reasons and they do not know we are.

In this spot your sizing which appears weak - has two purposes-based on your read regarding flushes.
1 get called by weaker hands
2 induce bluffs


Hope this helps

 

[theANMATOR]

Thank you for responding.

When we bet to get a read we have to use a more clearly defined strong bet size. That sizing is usually half pot or more. That way when we have shown strength and they raise us we can consider increasing our fold frequency vs straight forward players.

As you saw in this spot your sizing could have caused a competent V to think one of two things based on the V's sizing and cards.

1 You were weaker than 2 pair and you would call a hand weaker than 2 pair
2 You would overfold to this sizing.

You stated that you had history with this V- that suggest that they think you have a weakness in your bet sizing choices. That is fine- if we are sizing for the right reasons and they do not know we are.

In this spot your sizing which appears weak - has two purposes-based on your read regarding flushes.
1 get called by weaker hands
2 induce bluffs


Hope this helps

Yeah thanks E that really does help a ton.
I think I fluster a lot of regs because I do several things that are unconventional compared to the general player pool. Certainly my sizing messes with folks. I'm often getting re-raised when my villains are a lot weaker than I am. I guess it puts me in some very uncomfortable spots more often than not, but I guess I've become used to it. LOL
I guess it's my penitence for playing awkwardly, and starting to play relatively late in my life span. And I'm always looking for exploitative plays, which I think is the most beneficial in this player pool, doing things unconventional causes my opponents to spaz out at times lol.

 

[eetenor]

Yeah thanks E that really does help a ton.
I think I fluster a lot of regs because I do several things that are unconventional compared to the general player pool. Certainly my sizing messes with folks. I'm often getting re-raised when my villains are a lot weaker than I am. I guess it puts me in some very uncomfortable spots more often than not, but I guess I've become used to it. LOL
I guess it's my penitence for playing awkwardly, and starting to play relatively late in my life span. And I'm always looking for exploitative plays, which I think is the most beneficial in this player pool, doing things unconventional causes my opponents to spaz out at times lol.

Thank you for responding.

When we play exploitatively as you do and that is fine, we want to know what EXACTLY our bet sizing are intended to do to those V. We cannot know for sure what they will do- only what our intent is- exactly.

That is why a smaller sizing does not allow us to get a read because our V spaz.
So we size for a read or we size for a spaz but the two are never the same size when we are playing exploit poker.

Another point as well on sizing. We need to be aware of our sizing structure on each street as it relates to each other. Your sizing was small -small indicating overall weakness another reason why the river bet would not be an effective read sizing but a great spaz sizing but you had better be ready to call pot+ bets some of which you will lose.

Hope this helps

 

[fundiver199]

So I think this ill advised play in this one particular hand might be due to his recent misfortunes.

This is actually a very important observation. Even regulars sometimes goes on tilt, especially in the micros, where even most are fairly new to the game. So paying attention and understanding the dynamic of, who might be tilting, is a great way to gain an edge. And not only against regulars of course. Fish often tilt even more, especially if you continue to raise their limps and "ruin the game", as they like it to be played. This can sometimes cause an otherwise passive player to suddenly become a spew-fish and go on some crazy wild bluff to "make a stand against the bully".

 

[theANMATOR]

Thank you for responding.

When we play exploitatively as you do and that is fine, we want to know what EXACTLY our bet sizing are intended to do to those V. We cannot know for sure what they will do- only what our intent is- exactly.

That is why a smaller sizing does not allow us to get a read because our V spaz.
So we size for a read or we size for a spaz but the two are never the same size when we are playing exploit poker.

Another point as well on sizing. We need to be aware of our sizing structure on each street as it relates to each other. Your sizing was small -small indicating overall weakness another reason why the river bet would not be an effective read sizing but a great spaz sizing but you had better be ready to call pot+ bets some of which you will lose.

Hope this helps

You are 100% accurate E - and thank you for the additional detailed response. I have been SCOLDED/suggested by other CC members of this EXACT same issue, proper bet sizing for specific reasons. AKQ, FD and others has posted nearly identical words as you use here, in more than one of my threads.
This is certainly what I would consider a leak in my play that I'm aware of - but it appears I'm finding it difficult to break this less than optimal habit.

I will continue to work on it! Hopefully in the future when I post hands - we might be able to see I am improving in this area.

 

[CourtJester]

Beautifully played. Congrats!

 

[eetenor]

You are 100% accurate E - and thank you for the additional detailed response. I have been SCOLDED/suggested by other CC members of this EXACT same issue, proper bet sizing for specific reasons. AKQ, FD and others has posted nearly identical words as you use here, in more than one of my threads.
This is certainly what I would consider a leak in my play that I'm aware of - but it appears I'm finding it difficult to break this less than optimal habit.

I will continue to work on it! Hopefully in the future when I post hands - we might be able to see I am improving in this area.

Thank you for responding

You are doing great posting and growing here on the site. Keep up the bravery and hard work.
Your V reads are solid and using them to set the correct bet size is good. I am sure you will know in the future exactly what size does what.

I will be watching out for you:fight: in the freerolls. Keep grinding