$2,2 NL HE MTT: QQ in SB

Andyreas

Andyreas

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 25, 2022
Total posts
11,577
Awards
8
DE
Chips
897
Game
Hold'em
Game Format
No Limit
Table Format
MTT
Buy-in
2,2
Game Options
  1. Bounty
Currency
$
Hi all,

I'm pretty sure I did not play this hand very well, so that's why I am posting here.

Game is a $2.2 PKO and table is 7-handed. We are a few places away from ITM. I have around 60 BBs and get dealt QQ in SB. I have all players covered at the table.

UTG+1 opens 3.3 BBs (seems to be a decent player), BN (super fish) calls, I raise to 14.5 BBs. UTG+1 folds, BN calls. Flop comes AK8 rainbow - GREAT!

I decide to bet half pot, fish jams. I am rather sure to be beat but only have to pay additional 6 BBs, so I call. He reveals KJo (!) and it holds.

My questions are if my Pre-flop raise was large enough? How should I have played the flop against him? If I would have checked, he would surely have bet, as he was also pretty bluffy. I have seen him calling down 3-street barrels with 33 or nothing, so he plays quite unpredictable. :LOL:

Happy to read your thoughts on this hand.
 
Gritz18

Gritz18

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Total posts
4,934
Awards
3
BR
Chips
620
Happy to read your thoughts on this hand.
I'm going to say what I think about this hand, hmmmmm............................wait a minute that I'm still thinking about.🤪😁🤣🤣
 
TheHulk7

TheHulk7

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Total posts
764
Awards
5
Chips
4
Pre flop fine, we can go with bigger size OOP but in tourneys i guess raise to 10.5 - 11 is ok, its hard to say without stacks. The flop isn't good for our hand but hit our range pretty well, with short stack fish on the button i'd check / fold, maybe call for bounty and depends on his stack , otherwise we can c bet that flop often with small size like 30% and shutdown if get called.. check / call that flop is also option. Unlucky, he should fold KJo vs utg 3x open, but long term you crush such players. :)
 
rhoudini

rhoudini

Rock Star
Platinum Level
Joined
Feb 28, 2023
Total posts
456
Awards
3
BR
Chips
748
I like your pre-flop play. Any size between 14 to 17 BBs is good, I think.

Flop: the worst flop possible. I would not have bet this flop, I think. Even if you considered him a fish, he is not a crazy maniac playing any two cards, so we can try to think a little bit about his range. What hands he would call your 3-bet after UTG+1 folded?

Given the information you provided, it is quite reasonable he may hold 77+, Ax, KT+, QT+, JTs, something like this, but I would always say that these worst hands are more unlikely. They are possible, but we should always expect the worst: remember that we are not dealing with someone who just called a raise, but also a big 3-bet. Also unlikely he has JJ or even TT (would he just call initial raise with these hands?)
Well, you block hands with queens, so it is still more likely he has an A or an K. You are doing good just against small pairs. So I think the correct is to check and evaluate his bet, if he does. But after the flop you should proceed carefully.

If he bets small, maybe we can call once, but I don't think we can call twice in this spot. Overall, giving up may be the best. I know, it hurts, but good players also make good folds. See, I have already seen Negreanu folding hands like this, and the opponent was bluffing, but he knew that against the overall range he was losing. We should always try to think in ranges. That is difficult when playing online or multitabling, but the more you do it, the better your results will be.
 
eetenor

eetenor

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Total posts
2,221
Awards
2
Chips
245
Hi all,

I'm pretty sure I did not play this hand very well, so that's why I am posting here.

Game is a $2.2 PKO and table is 7-handed. We are a few places away from ITM. I have around 60 BBs and get dealt QQ in SB. I have all players covered at the table.

UTG+1 opens 3.3 BBs (seems to be a decent player), BN (super fish) calls, I raise to 14.5 BBs. UTG+1 folds, BN calls. Flop comes AK8 rainbow - GREAT!

I decide to bet half pot, fish jams. I am rather sure to be beat but only have to pay additional 6 BBs, so I call. He reveals KJo (!) and it holds.

My questions are if my Pre-flop raise was large enough? How should I have played the flop against him? If I would have checked, he would surely have bet, as he was also pretty bluffy. I have seen him calling down 3-street barrels with 33 or nothing, so he plays quite unpredictable. :LOL:

Happy to read your thoughts on this hand.
BTN has 14.5 +21-3 so 36-8 bb ish stack preflop and is loose and weak- They are bounty available what about the UTG player how many BB's - less than you as you said but how much less?
So your 3 bet was standard sizing ish for deep stacks but do you adapt your 3 bet sizing based on V SPR and calling tendencies preflop?
Pot is 33 ish on flop and V has only 22 ish left do these numbers make you think a different sizing preflop might be easier to play post flop?
How would we adjust our sizing considering we want to get the bounties yet still make our OOP SPR on flop have more decision paths?
Are we looking to get bounty available hands to fold preflop when we have QQ? How would that effect our 3 bet sizing?

As played on flop we basically put the V all -in with this sizing -after having condensed their range that this flop hits- so they either have better or fold- We also have to call when we bet this size. Is there a sizing we can use that gets the same results but does not force us to call?

Which action has more value----we check- they shove better and bluffs and we call or we shove (our sizing is a shove)- they fold worse and call better?

Near the bubble with 2 bounties available would we ever flat QQ OOP due to the SPR's of our V to see a clean flop and stack them post flop?

:unsure::geek:
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,806
Awards
2
Chips
385
Preflop
How deep was BTN? Depending on that there are different options here including to just call a see a flop. But its not like, your line and sizing was bad in any way.

Flop
Worst possible flop for QQ. The goal here is to get to a cheap showdown, if he will allow it. And if not then just check-fold and cut your losses.
 
S

Station_Master

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2022
Total posts
1,299
Awards
1
GB
Chips
308
You need to check flop here. Any time you bet so large you are committed to sigh-call a raise you have done something wrong. Remember there are 3 streets post flop so even if you had AA there is no need to bet flop oop. Check and evaluate, or bet super small with range, e.g. 20% or 25% pot
 
M

Maximum

Rock Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Total posts
114
Awards
3
Chips
35
Preflop is ok.
On the flop i usually bet 100% of my hands 1/4 or 1/3 on this dry flop .Pot is around 34bb and if you bet 1/4 around 8.5bb probably you can fold to jam ,i don't expect even fishes to reraise all in here with air .
 
Marshmalo1994

Marshmalo1994

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Sep 17, 2022
Total posts
1,618
Awards
1
AR
Chips
610
I think that your preflop bet size is standard. Then in the flop I'd also do a cbet, probably a little bit smaller, maybe 10-12 BB, but you would find yourself in the same situtation, a jam from the BTN and only 12-14BB to call for a pot of almost 80BB.
The other (difficult) option is to give up the hand on the flop, and that saves +20BB
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,806
Awards
2
Chips
385
BTN has 14.5 +21-3 so 36-8 bb ish stack preflop and is loose and weak- They are bounty available what about the UTG player how many BB's - less than you as you said but how much less?
So your 3 bet was standard sizing ish for deep stacks but do you adapt your 3 bet sizing based on V SPR and calling tendencies preflop?
Pot is 33 ish on flop and V has only 22 ish left do these numbers make you think a different sizing preflop might be easier to play post flop?
Looking at the hand again this is key. We never want to use a non all-in 3-bet sizing, where we get committed to the pot, if someone gives us action. And against BTN we were clearly committed having already put in more than 1/3 of his stack. The question then is, how deep was UTG+1? Depending on that it could be reasonable to 3-bet jam, given that there was already a lot in the pot with a 3,3BB open and a call. Or if UTG+1 was to deep for us to jam, and we cant 3-bet without creating an awkward SPR against the fishy BTN, maybe we should just call and see a cheap flop.

Yes we are going to be out of position in a 3-way pot, but even then QQ is usually a pretty easy hand to play. On a low board we have a well disguised overpair and can get lots of action from worse hands, especially from the fishy BTN. And on this particular board we can just check-fold and get away cheaply. In general preflop aggression is good, but there are also situations, where its better to take a more passive approach preflop and instead look to take advantage of our postflop skill edge especially against really bad players.
 
dino

dino

10 cevapcici = 0 stress
Community Guide
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Total posts
6,658
Awards
3
DE
Chips
307
with just a few places to ITM, a bunch of players will tide up their games, which means I would push all in right away in that spot, hope will hold, but unfortunately for you it didn't.
On the other hand, if in/at a bubble I would happily fold this hand, and wait to get ITM at least.
But, that's just my thought on this.
 
Top