$1100 NLHE MTT: bet or c/c turn spot

[kanselau]

I usually get a liitle confused on what to do in simular spots so would like advice on how we should play on the turn.

Live torney Blinds 250/500

Stacks
Villain 24k
Hero 31k


Action : LAG CO raises 1250 BB and we have QdJd so we call
Flop (2750) Qs7h3d

we decide to donk 1500 to get value from smaller pocket pairs and AK and at the same time protect our hand. Villain calls.

the turn (5750) 2d
so now we have top pair and flush draw.
Do we now pot control and check call , or keep going for value and risk getting raised . If we bet say 2500 and villain raises we will need to fold.

So it feels like check calling is better but then we give villain a free card.

Would we play the hand differently on the turn if a K fell instead of the 2?

How would position effect our decisions , say we were the BTN with QdJd and villain in BB called our preflop raise. Do we then bet turn or take the free card

 

[m1neturtle]

Well, since villain is a LAG he's likely going to cbet the flop with most of his range, and it's unlikely he'd call on such a dry board with complete air. So I think it would've been better to just check/call flop in the first place, which would've made our turn decision a bit easier.

As played, it depends a lot on what villain's range is for calling your flop lead. If it contains a lot of 7x/44-TT/AK then checking may be better because those hands would often fold to a turn barrel, but he might turn them into a bluff on either the turn or river.

Additionally, we don't really have to worry about protecting our hand because unless he slowplayed a set or overpair then most of his range only has 10-12% equity against us (actually less because some of his outs would give us a flush).

If, in previous hands, you've seen him get sticky postflop and make light calldowns then you could definitely go for more value, but by betting you do give a LAG an opportunity to raise you, which typically would force us to either fold or shove on this stack size. With top pair and a flush draw I'd have a very difficult time not shoving if he raised, although if I have a read that he only does this for value then folding is probably better.

I think if I were in your shoes my decision would depend a lot on what stage of the tournament it is and what (if any) reads I have on this player.

 

[Micro Maven]

After your donk bet, he's going to put you on a weak 1 pair. He's either floating to steal, he's got 88-JJ and hoping to see a cheap show down, or small chance of a set. I think it's all about read and feel in this spot, but if you're going to bet/fold then I'd just check/call. Once you pick up the flush draw there aren't a ton of scary rivers. Unless he's just calling down everything, I don't think you can get 3 streets of value unimproved so I like a value bet on river instead where a weak Q or 2nd pair might pay you off.

So all in all, I think a check/call provides more value through bluff catching, minimizing damage vs a KQ type hand and not over-repping your hand.

 

[duggs]

dont donk here.

 

[X at Tripaces]

i would check call here. With the way the hand has been played, i believe we can rule out AA, KK, however, AQ, or mid set is still an option, with the flat call on the flop. I dont think giving a possible free flop hurts us here, as top pair/3rd kicker is not a hand we want to be giving away free chips to a reraise on. If a K would have come on turn... i still play it the same way, unless villian comes out with a huge bet after your check.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

I think if he's really a LAG, then we should check-call the flop, instead of donking.

When he calls our donk bet we have to wonder why? he must have something and a lot of "somethings" beat us.

As played, once we get to the turn, that is a beautiful card for us. I think we should check-call. yes, we are potentially giving a free card but there aren't a lot of river cards that are terrible for us now that we've picked up a flushdraw. let's say he has AK with no diamonds. he only has 4 outs. I think we can afford to let him draw to 4 outs...not to mention if a non diamond ace or king hits we can probably manage to NOT stack off.

The problem I have with leading out on he turn is we might bet ourselves off our draw. if he raises the turn either as a bluff, or for value we probably have to fold and we lose the opportunity to outdraw him.

So I think checking the turn is ideal because:

1) we pot control those times we are beat
2) we gain value by bluff catching
3) we have an opportunity to outdraw the top of his range and win a big pot

as to your question would we play the hand differently if the turn were a K?
if it's the King of Diamonds, then check-calling is definitely still the best line because we have a nice draw, we might be ahead, and we might be beat.

if it's a non diamond K then I don't know, that one is tough. I might lead with the intention of giving up if he doesn't fold on the turn, essentially turning our hand into a bluff.

 

[suby_rafael]

valuetown

I think betting here for value is just fine ... As the villain is loose aggressive he might have raised our bet on the flop with a set or over pair. However it is a statistical possibility but i think the probability is low. Even if he had a better queen he might raise us. So his flatting on the flop does look like an underpair or a random float.

We have picked up extra equity with more outs for making a flush so i think we should continue taking him along a ride down valuetown.

Would we play the hand differently on the turn if a K fell instead of the 2?

Yes i would prefer a check if a king falls and then evaluate. We would still be checking with intention to call as villain might try to bluff us off representing a king.:icon_bril