$11 NLHE MTT Bounty: Is this too tight of a fold?

[xOneCoolHandx]

I am sitting in the BB with AQs. Action folds to the button who jams with slightly over 16 BBs. I am ready to call until SB also makes the call. At this point I am getting slightly more than 2:1 on my money and need to be good a little more than 33% of the time.

Reads: Button has been pretty loose during the game but not too out of line. The SB is new to the table and I don't have a read on him yet. VPIP and PFR above is for button and, as I said, I was calling him all the way.

So, I am wondering how often I run into QQ+ or AK when there is a button jam and SB call for 16+ BBs. My gut told me I was probably dominated or flipping against two people. So, my question is: do you make this call from the BB and why?

I chose to fold in this instance but I am really questioning myself. Seems like it should be a pure call since button is all in and I have position on the SB for the rest of the hand. If this was an EP jam with another EP or early MP call, then I am most likey always folding (unless I have some specific reads), The button jam is always an easy call with AQs since his 16 BB range is so wide to jam but it is the SB call that I was particularly curious about, he did have the button covered but was risking half of his stack to make the call. I thought that this should indicate a fairly strong hand.

That was before I looked at the GTO charts which showed that calling off from the SB against 15 BB button jam was pretty much 33+, any suited ace. A6o+. KJo+ and QTs+. I put those ranges in Pio and now I know that the solvers would call. The UTG jam and call from any other position would have been a good fold, but this action apparently should have been a call. However, I find that most people are not playing anywhere near GTO and I rely on reads in a lot of situations and I read this one as pretty strong.

So, would you make this call and why?

 

[fundiver199]

Yes I would typically call, when its a late position confrontation like this. But in a PKO it also depends on, if you covered the opponents, and if so how big their bounties were relative to the chip stacks, and if SB had BTN covered. If so then the SB calling range will be wider, because he is going after the bounty. I also tend to somewhat discount QQ+ from a 16BB open shoving range, because I think, a lot of people would minraise those hands and try to get more action.

 

[duderino89]

I am sitting in the BB with AQs. Action folds to the button who jams with slightly over 16 BBs. I am ready to call until SB also makes the call. At this point I am getting slightly more than 2:1 on my money and need to be good a little more than 33% of the time.

Reads: Button has been pretty loose during the game but not too out of line. The SB is new to the table and I don't have a read on him yet. VPIP and PFR above is for button and, as I said, I was calling him all the way.

So, I am wondering how often I run into QQ+ or AK when there is a button jam and SB call for 16+ BBs. My gut told me I was probably dominated or flipping against two people. So, my question is: do you make this call from the BB and why?

I chose to fold in this instance but I am really questioning myself. Seems like it should be a pure call since button is all in and I have position on the SB for the rest of the hand. If this was an EP jam with another EP or early MP call, then I am most likey always folding (unless I have some specific reads), The button jam is always an easy call with AQs since his 16 BB range is so wide to jam but it is the SB call that I was particularly curious about, he did have the button covered but was risking half of his stack to make the call. I thought that this should indicate a fairly strong hand.

That was before I looked at the GTO charts which showed that calling off from the SB against 15 BB button jam was pretty much 33+, any suited ace. A6o+. KJo+ and QTs+. I put those ranges in Pio and now I know that the solvers would call. The UTG jam and call from any other position would have been a good fold, but this action apparently should have been a call. However, I find that most people are not playing anywhere near GTO and I rely on reads in a lot of situations and I read this one as pretty strong.

So, would you make this call and why?

Hey there!
First of all i totally agree with you on that most people don't play GTO charts in those kind of stakes. If you think that people are calling tighter/jamming tighter you should adjust your ranges as well IMO.
Now let's talk about your hand. Unfortunately you didn't tell us what tournament it was. At least from structure? In my experience i can tell you that if the blind structure is faster people tend to play more loose and aggressive in these spots.
Also you didn't mention if the SB was all-in as well and if we covered him as well. And how much the bounties where.
But i've seen very similar spots in the 11$ BountyBuilder Turbos on pokerstars. If we expect the button to jam too wide - it's a pure call - and especially with the SB just calling - i've seen a lot of players call hands like KTs 77s A6o and worse in these spots - rarely they are trapping hands like KK / AA there - so just stick it in and spin it up imo.
Not only that we can get bounties immediately but having a bigger stack in PKO tourneys is important for future EV as well!

 

[dallam]

I would put the same range to the button with these blinds, obv. I don't use any helping programs but in my eyes too these are the hands which had to be push to making blinds on our side from this position or possible double-up. So we are flipping against button in 1v1 or having an advantage pre, only AA, KK, QQ is ahead but we blocking two combinations, so definitely a call.

So as you mentioned its a bounty, SB could join with the exact same range as well, I could see even some weaker hands too without notes. And I do think AQs is strong enough to itself to making a call here even not including its a bounty game. But it only making it an easier call for me.

 

[Tigroslav]

Please include your and the sb stack sizes.
Its a call unless both you and the sb are in the top 20% of the remaining players.
In that case fold and conserve your stack.

 

[SharkyShark1]

I would have called in your position. The Button can jam with a big range, as this looks like a jam-steal. With the SB calling it gives you an opportunity to rejam and hopefully isolate the Button. The SB might be calling lightly as this is a PKO event and people usually play these tournaments to rake up bounties and to do so they call with for example any suited A and ofsuite A8 and up.

To get a better answer you should include the stage you are in, how far from the money you are and the blind situation of the SB and you.

 

[Endwarfin]

Please include your and the sb stack sizes.
Its a call unless both you and the sb are in the top 20% of the remaining players.
In that case fold and conserve your stack.

Yeah stack sizes and players left is super important.
For example if both villains are
99+, A2s +, KQs, QJs, A10o +, KQo
You have about 37% equity and it would be a call.

If I tighten SB and widen BTN you maintain a hair over 33.3%
So stack sizes and ICM should factor.

All things being equal, I think folding is generally the right thing here, you gain free information on whoever wins the hand because you will see their cards.

 

[xOneCoolHandx]

Great Answers

You guys have had some great answers. Apologies for not putting in all the info I had. I will provide more next time.

For those of you who did answer, where the heck are you playing? I like playing with other people who think through the game and not the all in fests of the freerolls (although I do participate occasionally in them for fun).

 

[AKQ]

Theres 2 awnsers from me on this one
#1 the poker player in me says call as your'e range beats whats most likely happening due to action prior
#2 Fold your'e going 3 way all in , no matter what your'e going to be flipping

If it was a cash game #1
If it was the beginning of a deep mtt #1
nearing the Final table ,far past the bubble #2
no shame in folding and stealing the next hand

 

[marvinsytan]

because it's a bounty it's a re-jam all in let's take 2 of their booties

 

[fundiver199]

because it's a bounty it's a re-jam all in let's take 2 of their booties

Plus it has more value being a big stack in a bounty, because it allow us to content for more future bounties. In a bounty there is little value in just limping into the money, since a min-cash is often not even the buyin. So if you hate "gambling" and high variance situations like this one, you are better off playing regular MTTs.