$11 NL HE MTT: Bad play or simply unlucky?

[Andyreas]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

11

Currency

$

Hi forum,

Happy to receive some feedback on this hand.

It's an $11 MTT played from my phone, so no convertable HH.

Late reg has ended like 15-20 minutes before and we're not yet ITM but also not close to bubble. Table is 8-max.

I have about 24 BBs and get TdTc sitting on BN.

UTG with 20 BBs min-raises in. I have him labelled as decent player, rather on the right side.

My question: 3-bet/fold or call with this info? I decided for a call only. BB (big stack) calls too.

Flop comes Kh4d7d. BB checks, UTG fires a c-bet of slightly less than 1/3 of pot. I call, BB calls.

Turn: Kc. BB checks, UTG bets slightly less than 1/4 of pot. This sizing confused me. What would you read into it? I decide to call again, BB folds.

River: 9d. So some flush draws got there but still only one overcard. He bets about 1/3 of pot again. Hero?

Spoiler: My action and result

I called and he revealed KsQh for trips.

Question: should I have folded flop/turn/river? Or jammed river for a bluff for flush? Although he probably had too less behind to fold.

I find it weird of him to bet again when the flushes got there since I could have some suited connectors on BN, no? But maybe he has also labelled me as tight. 😅

Happy to hear your thoughts.

 

[eetenor]

Hi forum,

Happy to receive some feedback on this hand.

It's an $11 MTT played from my phone, so no convertable HH.

Late reg has ended like 15-20 minutes before and we're not yet ITM but also not close to bubble. Table is 8-max.

I have about 24 BBs and get TdTc sitting on BN.

UTG with 20 BBs min-raises in. I have him labelled as decent player, rather on the right side.

My question: 3-bet/fold or call with this info? I decided for a call only. BB (big stack) calls too.

Flop comes Kh4d7d. BB checks, UTG fires a c-bet of slightly less than 1/3 of pot. I call, BB calls.

Turn: Kc. BB checks, UTG bets slightly less than 1/4 of pot. This sizing confused me. What would you read into it? I decide to call again, BB folds.

River: 9d. So some flush draws got there but still only one overcard. He bets about 1/3 of pot again. Hero?

Spoiler: My action and result

I called and he revealed KsQh for trips.

Question: should I have folded flop/turn/river? Or jammed river for a bluff for flush? Although he probably had too less behind to fold.

I find it weird of him to bet again when the flushes got there since I could have some suited connectors on BN, no? But maybe he has also labelled me as tight. 😅

Happy to hear your thoughts.

GTOWIZ has us shoving TT preflop at 20bb eff UTG gto is opening 17% of hands no open shoves-so we shove
Saw the results this is why we can shove TT we struggle post flop.

As played we have to ask what are UTG'S bluffs? What are they value betting that we are ahead of? Is there sizing correct for what range?

On flop close to GTO sizing assuming some 3 way knowledge the V is betting top of range bottom of range not middling strength hands AcJc etc
We cannot fold we are ahead of bluffs calling is fine.

The turn is where your study point is- as played
Why smaller bet? if we think V has proper 3way strat on flop they are polar then they bet smaller on turn is that the sizing to be used if they are still polar? -would they bluff this sizing 3way?
Are you seeing this type of down sizing with bluffs with any freq 3way pots---if you have hud stats on your player pool go look for spots like this

Standard player types will most often be betting close to GTO on flops -everyone has heard to bet 1/3---then change how they bet these types of hands on turns like this rather than stay consistent and keep repping range

 

[300HPGOD]

I think we can jam this based on this stack but what deters me from jamming here is that this is an UTG open from a player that we do not think is loose and may be as you mentioned on the tight side (I think what you meant). Therefore, I think I just call here as I dont like 3 betting to an amount other than jamming. It will be a little tough to play but we do have position and we have a hand that is not completely flop dependent to float. TT is a high enough pair that it does have showdown value. I dont think you are that wrong if you jam or just call here. Change a few variables such as this is MP or CO opening or we have 18 BBs instead of 24 and then I would be on the jamming train.

Flop: One over and 2 diamonds which is not ideal of course but its not a bad flop either. We do have a diamond which helps and the overcard is not an ace although I would prefer it to be a J instead of a K. With the sizing we face, having a backdoor and also only one overcard I think you should be calling this but we cant forget about the BB still to act.

Turn: Another K is nice since its less likely they have one but I think Eetoner makes a great point here. Multi way pot and they bet the sizing they do with another K coming. This could be some hand trying to get to a cheap showdown and they believe betting smaller is cheaper than checking to you and letting you fire away or BB leading large on river, it could be they really liked the K and dont want anyone to fold or they could be trying to price themselves into a draw. We would be thinking that Kx would be larger to protect against the flush draw especially with two opponents. In our spot I am thinking that with villain UTG opening and betting twice (by the time we act on turn) and BB already calling flop that we are behind here (that doesnt necessarily mean its from Kx and UTG could have JJ or QQ) so I dont think I would call and I dont see the chip depth room the bluff either along with some Kx that we would have would raise flop some of the time based on the diamonds and with another K its less believable so I think I snug fold turn and not really sure that is correct. This is a weird spot to be put post flop and it almost feels like villain has put us on the hand that we have.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
The easiest way to play this hand is to jam. If some of the players in the blinds cover you, you are 24BB effective against them, which is a bit deep. But the far more important player is UTG, and you are only 20BB effective against him, which is a completely fine rejam stack depth with an ante. I would not 3-bet small, so the other option is to flat, like you did, but the problem is, that invites the blinds into the pot. And TT is tough to play on many boards, because there are going to be overcards, and you will not hit your set all that often.

Flop
Having Td I would also lean towards a call here, but its close, when you have another player left to act behind you. Even if UTG is bluffing, BB could also have a K, and then you are drawing pretty thin already. You also dont have much stack depth to play the later streets.

Turn
When BB overcall, I am definitely done with the hand, since it is now very likely, you are behind to at least one of them. Sure the board pairing makes it a bit less likely, they have a K, but it does not make it impossible. You are getting a good price, but how often is UTG bluffing with this sizing, after two players called him on the flop? There is also a risk, that BB might have improved to trips and decide to raise it to protect from the flushdraw. So even though you are getting a good price, I fold here.

River
Now the flush draw got there, so what is even bluffing with? And often is this kind of sizing used for bluffing? This scream like, you are being milked. And if I somehow called the turn, I still fold now.

Results
Exactly the kind of hand, I would expect him to show up with most of the time. And no you should not turn your hand into a bluff by raising the river. You dont have enough stack left behind, and he is most likely not folding trips. Instead you should have jammed preflop, or as played folded turn. KQo cant call a jam preflop for 20BB after opening UTG, so by jamming you deny him a lot of equity. And if he does make a bad call, you are flipping with 55% equity, which is also fine.

 

[AKQ]

The GTO range of utg folds small pairs and AJ o

So DO NOT JAM with KNOWN data driven gto range tendancy

a known jam spot wide.....is the button

Your'e not ganna get fold equity so dont jam

Play it like value and see the flop and get more info from your opponent

short and sweeet

 

[feisas7991]

id jam pre.
as played raise fold otf is fine
on the river tricky spot. dont expect worse pairs to bet again so i just fold
hope this helps and GL!

 

[feisas7991]

The GTO range of utg folds small pairs and AJ o

So DO NOT JAM with KNOWN data driven gto range tendancy

a known jam spot wide.....is the button

Your'e not ganna get fold equity so dont jam

Play it like value and see the flop and get more info from your opponent

short and sweeet

the problem with this line in higher stakes that utg can bluff u off on Q+ high boards since we dont have these cards|


edit any position ip can bluff you off, you caping yoursself hard

 

[scobido]

It's a game strategy and this bet is smaller than the first one, of course to make you believe the opposite, maybe I'll apply it in the future.At least when the king appeared I certainly had a trace of doubt and gave up the hand.

 

[AKQ]

the problem with this line in higher stakes that utg can bluff u off on Q+ high boards since we dont have these cards|


edit any position ip can bluff you off, you caping yoursself hard

utg usually doesn't have to bluff a Q+ board
As their range is Value heavy
also the GTO range is probably wider than populations true range

AJo is on there but it as with everything GTO
Frequency rules all
AJo may only open 20% of the time at 40bbs and fold 80%

but at 20 bbs GTO A9o will bet 100% utg

GTO is not Optimal but gives us a baseline

It is up to you to decide what is optimal in any given situation and your associated Risk

 

[dallam]

If opp is a solid player, I expect to have slight range issues from the start on our side when he has only 20bbs at an 8-max. So the big question is do you wanna expand or cut your all-in line? I think given we are on BTN with relatively similar stack and aspect at this point about the gameplays, calling more is just safer like you did.

At the Turn when opp is fireing into a multiway when the 2nd K appears it's a fold for me. Giving the size of the raise, it's more likely the Set itself we are facing with, but since we behind to QQ and JJ too, don't see any reason to protect the second pair, rather protect the stack of ours.
It's interesting tho how delicate can parties be when players having 20-25bbs stacks, and how some smaller bets can hide something like this.