10K MTT Heads-Up.... thoughts on play

[master0s0k]

I am pretty sure this was the correct move but I always like to hear what other people would have done differently. I figured I had the best hand and he would have raised again on the river had I just called. Had him on KK-AQ and may have needed to dodge a heart or club to avoid the flush... No real reads as the final table play was pretty quick.

$10 Buy-in (25,000/50,000 blinds, 5,000 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. 

Hero (SB): 2,806,180 (56.1 bb)
BB: 3,193,820 (63.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7c Ac
Hero raises to 150,000, BB raises to 375,000, Hero calls 225,000

Flop: (760,000) 4h 6h Ad (2 players)
BB bets 320,000, Hero calls 320,000

Turn: (1,400,000) 7d (2 players)
BB bets 600,000, Hero raises to 2,106,180 and is all-in, BB calls 1,506,180

River: (5,612,360) Jc (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: 5,612,360 pot
Final Board: 4h 6h Ad 7d Jc 
Hero showed 7c Ac and lost (-2,806,180 net)
BB showed 4d 4s and won 5,612,360 (2,806,180 net)

Edit: Sorry please move this one to the hand analysis thread if possible.

 

[master0s0k]

heart or diamond rather.

 

[WiZZiM]

sooo reads?

why are we flatting this 3bet? what is his likely 3bet range is he loose/tight etc...

can't answer anything without info. Best i can do is say fold to the 3bet preflop and have a defending range that doesn't get absolutely crushed like A7s does.

As played, it's very much a classic WA/WB situation, so theres no reason to riase the turn, in fact i'd be very worried about our hand strength on the turn, flop call is great, but we're essentially folding out all of his bluffing range/worse hands if we jam turn, and we get no value from that, and of course we are value owning ourselves when he has the AQ etc.

So in general, have a plan/calling range to certain 3betting ranges, and think about why you are doing what your doing. Raising turn makes no sense unless it's for value and this villian will get it in with second/third pair, because there are not many Ax at all we get value from, and we have a very unvulnerable top pair

 

[WiZZiM]

https://www.cardschat.com/f49/wa-wb-concept-76525/

 

[master0s0k]

Thanks for the advice. I see what you mean about folding the 3bet preflop. The last part I am a little confused. I raised on the turn with two pair as opposed to top pair. I didn't really get much read on him as the final table played really quick so folding preflop was probably the right move.

 

[master0s0k]

Just so I'm clear on WA/WB... So by calling/checking the flop I keep the pot low in case I am WB, get another card, and possibly induce a bluff on the turn if I am WA which I can call. If he checks the river I can value bet but if he leads out on the river I'm likely WB and fold.

 

[WiZZiM]

ahhh I missed that it was two pair. well then ya we get value from all the higher Ax now, we still fold out all the other stuff, but he's played it pretty strong thus far, and there is more chance now we do have him on A9+ instead of the JJ KK type hands or bluffs.

 

[WiZZiM]

and it doesn't refer to how to play the hand, it just refers to spots where our hand that we flopped is very unvulnerable. So in this case, if our top pair is good, we only have one flush draw to worry about on the flop, theres pretty much no chance of low straight draws unless this guys range is extremely wide. So our hand is either lightyears ahead, or we're completely screwed. Now with the action preflop being a 3bet, it's more likely that we're completely screwed, so making laydowns on turns unimproved isn't a bad idea. If the action falls a differant way, it could be a spot to pick off turn/river bluffs and keep the pot as small as possible, especially effective these days when players are trying to play too aggressive for no reason.

 

[master0s0k]

Yeah my explanation of how I understand WA/WB is more in general then regarding this hand specifically.

I just wanted to be clear that I understood the concept correctly...

Thanks for all the advice. That's a concept I wasn't familiar with and will need to try to work into my thought process when playing.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

What can we be ahead of on the flop when we just flat there?

Why are we just calling the flop?

I think the flop is our mistake here.

 

[WiZZiM]

why would we raise the flop? or are you just considering flat out folding the flop atlanta (making our preflop call even more terrible)

 

[atlantafalcons0]

It's hard to say, the results were posted initially....

 

[WiZZiM]

shouldn't make any differance to your general line of play, but ok.

 

[Ambur]

Rejam pre or fold (deep enough). Imo

 

[Stephenunited]

This is interesting. The main occasion on which I lose the most chips is when my opponent hits trips on the flop. I don't know how it is possible to ever know someone has hit trips? I hate it.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

shouldn't make any differance to your general line of play, but ok.

Once results are posted it changes thought processes for any given decision and that's something out of our control.

So it does make a difference to my general line.

Heads up I'm not a fan of calling a 3bet with ace 7 suited OOP but can we jam there? (read specific/results oriented)

SO, you are right. The correct line is to fold preflop unless there is some specific read or something IMO.

As played I really don't understand the flop call or the turn shove.

On the flop, we are behind 95% of his range?

On the turn we are only getting called by hands that have us crushed?

I just think the flop is our best chance to get away from this hand as played. That is after the fact and it does magnify a bad call preflop.

 

[WiZZiM]

ya that's why it's best to not read the hand until the end to post opinions. I pretty much always comment street by street so i rarely get to the end to see results anyways. But yes i agree with your point about knowing results can no doubt change opinion even if we don't really want it too.


i agree that the call pre isn't really a great one as a general range to defend 3bets with, even HU. But once we get to the flop, it's TP in a HU pot, i don't think we can just fold to a single bet because there are still a fair amount of hands/bluffs/lower pocket pairs that can be betting here, but yes i agree that it's still a pretty shitty situation that can be avoided. But i think once we do call pre, i think our hand is pretty unvulnerable postflop, so with it being HU, i think generally people don't just 3bet for value anymore, so there should be plenty of bluffs in his range here to peel one to a turn. so i understand the flop call, but agree that the turn shove is really pretty bad.

The turn for me is the decision here, and with him barrelling, i think the turn is the time to make the fold. But this all changes with in game reads, which by the look of it we should have plenty of them since we are so deep into an MTT?

 

[Ambur]

As played: flop is okei. On turn actually villain is commiting himself into pot which most likely means he has 2 pair or better. Real question is which hand could show strenght on preflop and taking bet bet line all the way (think about it for second) - ofcourse only place where hero could fold on postflop is turn (hero is not commited on turn, but hit his juicy 7).

And only question which i would ask myself - Is opponent capable to commit himself with air often enough to justifie continue on turn? Villain sized turn bet close to perfection. imo

Rejam pre or fold (but x% i never will give up that easy 1v1, deep enough)! Ax is really good preflop hand 1v1+suited (ofc it depend on villain range dentencies weather to fold pre or rejam). imo