$1 NLHE Turbo: Was this A Correct Shove?

[MaxiRodriguez]

$1 NL HE Turbo: Was this A Correct Shove?

BTN: 1,600 (2.7 bb)
Hero (SB): 3,030 (5.1 bb)
BB: 4,440 (7.4 bb)
CO: 10,930 (18.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A

Q

CO raises to 1,800, BTN folds, Hero raises to 3,030 and is all-in, BB folds, CO calls 1,230

Flop: (6,660) 8

Q

K

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: (6,660) K

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (6,660) 6

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Was this the Right move here, there's a shorty left, maybe I should've folded. I just dont like to leave my fate in the hands of others.

Thanks again guys.

 

[Coramoor_]

if this was on the bubble, then you should've folded, it would've been bubble if it was 9 man sng, otherwise the call was worth while, but when you're sb and the button has to go through a small and a big on the bubble with less chips then you, you should definitely be folding

 

[Jillychemung]

While the CO range is pretty wide here you should have folded and looked to try and take out the shorty. You have very little fold equity here due to CO stack size and for the CO once he's raised it up he can easily call your shove w/ ATC.

 

[josh_dei8]

FOLD!!! if its 9 player sng, you are one from the money, let someone else knock out the small stack. You are prolly ahead with Big Stack being a bully, but there are 5 cards to come. If it is a MTT, I think I make the call and try to secure a bigger stack.

 

[kevkojak]

I tend to disagree. AQ when sitting on 5 BB's is looking ok to me.
What if the short stack doubles up? Leaves you bottom of the pile desperate to find another strong Ace.
Playing for the win- then push those chips in. A fold there is kinda weak. If your happy with a cash, fold, but I think you'll regret it when your sat in 3rd and holding too few chips to pose a threat.

 

[WurlyQ]

I am going to assume this is a partypoker 10 man 50/30/20 payout single table tournament.

This is an easy fold even if CO is opening a wide range here. BB most likely has to go all in within 2 hands or they will get crippled. You will eventually have to make a stand if CO shoves every hand but this is not the spot.

 

[MaxiRodriguez]

Yeah, it was a party STT SNG sorry for not stating.

I got busted by K10 in the above situation, and SNG wiz confirmed that the correct move here was a fold. Close one though.

Thanks very much for the advice guys, a few similar situations have ocourred to me since and I've had a bit of ponder for making the move. Things have been going well on the SNG front ATM, getting about 10 cashes in my last 11 attempts

 

[Jack Daniels]

Now to reverse the situation here a little: While folding to the CO raise here was correct, if it were all the same except that we were UTG with AQo, then an open shove would be correct opposed to folding.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I tend to disagree. AQ when sitting on 5 BB's is looking ok to me.
What if the short stack doubles up? Leaves you bottom of the pile desperate to find another strong Ace.
Playing for the win- then push those chips in. A fold there is kinda weak. If your happy with a cash, fold, but I think you'll regret it when your sat in 3rd and holding too few chips to pose a threat.

The thing is, we don't play SNGs to win on the bubble - we play them to get in the money. They're not like big MTTs where the difference between scraping into the money and going deep in the final table is absolutely huge - the difference between first and third in a single-table SNG is comparatively minute.

ICM will say this is a fold because of the shorty. You can speculate on various "what ifs" all day, but it's definitely more likely we won't cash by calling here.

e: posted the above without noticing maxi's last post.

 

[RhiNy]

I think this was a great move, your in the small blind, someone might have been trying to steal, and you felt your hand was best. I agree!

 

[robert_wrath]

You didn't provide the tournament details i.e. payouts, exact blinds and antes. However, if the top three were to get paid off, folding is the correct option here. If your already in the cash, folding is still the correct option. Remember, your playing to win. If it means folding to cash higher, do it. Play for second, who knows, you might get even more than you bargained for.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Although this hand is a fold from an ICM standpoint, I think some of the posters here are failing to notice that the blinds here are HUGE. There won't be room for any 'play'.. if SS doubles up we are in rough shape. Folding here is no 'guarantee' that we will be cashing. Also, how soon do blinds increase again?

 

[Poker Orifice]

Did you check out what we need to get it in here? (according to Wiz).

 

[MaxiRodriguez]

Did you check out what we need to get it in here? (according to Wiz).

KK+ was recomended by wiz.

That was what you were asking?

 

[WurlyQ]

Although this hand is a fold from an ICM standpoint, I think some of the posters here are failing to notice that the blinds here are HUGE. There won't be room for any 'play'.. if SS doubles up we are in rough shape. Folding here is no 'guarantee' that we will be cashing. Also, how soon do blinds increase again?

The blinds being high here is does not change our decision by much. In addition, we have 2 free hands after this one.

If SS doubles, we are not guaranteed to bubble. Assigning rough estimates on bubbling, the probability of SS doubling AND hero busting would be something in the realm of .50 (probability of SS doubling) * .50 (probability of bubbling if SS doubles) = .25 which is far smaller than the 40% which is our approximate chance of bubbling here against CO's range. Obviously my numbers are very rough and I am not taking into consideration the added winnings after doubling but it is not enough to compensate for this discrepancy.

The combined probability of two events happening is generally far less than the probability of one event happening. Knowing that AKo holding up against 54s twice is less than the probability of 54s cracking AKo on any given hand is a good example of this. I am pretty sure that this is a pretty clear fold even if CO is opening his entire range.

KK+ was recomended by wiz.

That was what you were asking?

What opening range did you put on CO? I would think QQ is a shove.

 

[ihtennis]

if its an mtt id call, but if its a sign in i fold i wait for a better hand to try and make the money

 

[ythelongface]

i really dont want to put my tourney life on the line with AQ if i can help it. i find it easier to fold that hand today than say ehhh, a year ago. the problem with it here is that even if you get the bb to fold which he most likely will, barring AA or KK, you have the CO who could conceivably call you with dam near any pair, or even a weak A potentially, and he would still have a nice stack left if he lost. you however would be gonzo. like they said, let the shortstack make a decision for his tournament. you fold, the blinds hit him, he about has to go allin.

 

[MaxiRodriguez]

What opening range did you put on CO? I would think QQ is a shove.

The opening range on the CO is 22%, If I change the model to very loose it includes QQ. But I dont think he was very loose. Loose maybe, but that makes no difference.

 

[grvicious]

if you want to win you have to get it in here imo but if oyu are just playing for the money you might fold. i just dont see how you are ever behind the big stacks opening range. and you have 5bb so it makes it pretty trivial

 

[trewtrew]

on the bubble of a 9 handed sng with a super short stack behind u, any hand is a fold to a guy that can bust u. Others might argue differently but thats just the way i play.