$1 NL HE STT: Shoving QQ on the river on a paired board

[getmellow]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

STT

Buy-in

1

VP$IP

33

PFR

0

Game Options

1. Turbo

AF

0

Currency

$

888Poker, $0.90 + $0.10 - Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

staciekelso (UTG): 2,783 (19 bb)
octav92 (UTG+1): 950 (6 bb)
twowalkers (MP): 1,296 (9 bb)
OecherJung (MP+1): 1,722 (11 bb)
Rammses1985 (CO): 2,508 (17 bb)
MrBong420 (BU): 1,215 (8 bb)
getmellow (SB): 1,736 (12 bb)
LogiG (BB): 1,290 (9 bb)

Pre-Flop: (345) Hero (getmellow) is SB with Q♦ Q♠
4 players fold, Rammses1985 (CO) calls 150, 1 fold, getmellow (SB) raises to 375, 1 fold, Rammses1985 (CO) calls 225

Flop: (1,020) 5♣ K♠ 8♥ (2 players)
getmellow (SB) checks, Rammses1985 (CO) checks

Turn: (1,020) J♣ (2 players)
getmellow (SB) bets 510, Rammses1985 (CO) calls 510

River: (2,040) 8♠ (2 players)
getmellow (SB) bets 836 (all-in), Rammses1985 (CO) calls 836

Total pot: 3,712

Showdown:
getmellow (SB) shows Q♦ Q♠ (two pair, Queens and Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 83%, Flop: 80%, Turn: 89%, River: 0%)

Rammses1985 (CO) shows 8♦ 9♣ (three of a kind, Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 17%, Flop: 20%, Turn: 11%, River: 100%)

Rammses1985 (CO) wins 3,712

This is my 1st hand post as only really getting into studying the game but I feel i'm stagnating a bit so keen to see alternative thoughts on playing hands. I'm just playing micro while i learn the game so i'm not too worried about losing money.

I think on this one I could have shoved the turn as they would have bet the king on the flop so likely worse hands calling the turn in 8, J and flush draws. With the board pairing on the river i'm not sure if i should have just gone with a check/call or check/fold instead of jamming.

I feel i lose a lot of chips in hands like these where i don't change my thought process enough and just play a very similar way each time.

Thanks.

 

[Tigroslav]

With 12 BBs you might as well put it all in preflop there, especialy when you're in the blinds with already money in the pot and out of position post flop.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
With 15BB or less, you should mainly look to open jam preflop, when there is an ante. Sometimes you can min-raise as a "trap", but this is a bad spot for it, because there is already a limper, and you are out of position. If you had jammed preflop, 98o most likely fold, and you pick up 495 chips without a fight. This is a fantastic outcome even with a hand as strong as QQ, so dont be afraid to jam, because people might fold. Sometimes and especially in games this cheap, people will also make really bad calls, and if he stick it in with 98o preflop, he still win, but the hand is just a bad beat story.

Postflop
As played postflop is kind of fine. I mean: The SPR is so low, so what are you going to do? Check-fold your QQ? The main point is to not create this spot in the first place. Jamming preflop makes the hand a whole lot easier to play, and its also more profitable in the long run. You can check out this video for more information:

 

[getmellow]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[eetenor]

888Poker, $0.90 + $0.10 - Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

staciekelso (UTG): 2,783 (19 bb)
octav92 (UTG+1): 950 (6 bb)
twowalkers (MP): 1,296 (9 bb)
OecherJung (MP+1): 1,722 (11 bb)
Rammses1985 (CO): 2,508 (17 bb)
MrBong420 (BU): 1,215 (8 bb)
getmellow (SB): 1,736 (12 bb)
LogiG (BB): 1,290 (9 bb)

Pre-Flop: (345) Hero (getmellow) is SB with Q♦ Q♠
4 players fold, Rammses1985 (CO) calls 150, 1 fold, getmellow (SB) raises to 375, 1 fold, Rammses1985 (CO) calls 225

Flop: (1,020) 5♣ K♠ 8♥ (2 players)
getmellow (SB) checks, Rammses1985 (CO) checks

Turn: (1,020) J♣ (2 players)
getmellow (SB) bets 510, Rammses1985 (CO) calls 510

River: (2,040) 8♠ (2 players)
getmellow (SB) bets 836 (all-in), Rammses1985 (CO) calls 836

Total pot: 3,712

Showdown:
getmellow (SB) shows Q♦ Q♠ (two pair, Queens and Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 83%, Flop: 80%, Turn: 89%, River: 0%)

Rammses1985 (CO) shows 8♦ 9♣ (three of a kind, Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 17%, Flop: 20%, Turn: 11%, River: 100%)

Rammses1985 (CO) wins 3,712

This is my 1st hand post as only really getting into studying the game but I feel i'm stagnating a bit so keen to see alternative thoughts on playing hands. I'm just playing micro while i learn the game so i'm not too worried about losing money.

I think on this one I could have shoved the turn as they would have bet the king on the flop so likely worse hands calling the turn in 8, J and flush draws. With the board pairing on the river i'm not sure if i should have just gone with a check/call or check/fold instead of jamming.

I feel i lose a lot of chips in hands like these where i don't change my thought process enough and just play a very similar way each time.

Thanks.

Ok if you never ever limp first in with QQ and 17bb your ROI will improve dramatically-If you never ever flat a raise with QQ after a limp vs a player 12bb eff your Roi will improve- If ever you do not do the above- never do not do it- and the flop is checked down- never ever check again on turn when an undercard to the QQ comes- If you shove turn always you will improve your ROI even after making the first two mistakes-which you should never do

As played we cannot fold the river but we should never have lost this way-that means if dude decides to play the 98 we will always lose but just not this way

 

[300HPGOD]

Agree with others when we are dealt this with 12 BBs we are just hoping someone in front of us does something so we can jam over, including if they just limp. I would also be jamming if it was folded to me as BB is shorter than us so I dont see a reason to try some FPS move and min bet or something, I would just jam it in.

As far as as played goes post flop, I think there is a better way to play this if we really are going to only raise pre and not jam. The flop is a clear check since we are loving if they have 5x or 8x and dont want them going anywhere and if we are losing to Kx then they arent folding it now or later so might as well check and see if they bluff or they just check behind which I expect them to do with some pairs as well. I am never folding this hand, if I ever played it this way, so any bet by villain would at least be called unless the sizing is so large that a jam over would not make a fold. I know you could be jamming into a king but cant see anyone playing this hand this way looking for a reason to fold post flop.

On the turn another club comes so we cant sit back and check again and there is now a new target range that we could bet and called by worse and that would be all the two club hands so I would bet here. Your sizing is fine although smaller would be better but that it is totally splitting hairs at this point with this hand in this spot that we just shouldnt be in.

On the river is where I disagree and we should just be checking. Kx isnt folding, 8x isnt folding, and then on the flip side Jx is a maybe but think could fold and two clubs definitely folds. So if we did get to this spot we are not worried about minimizing losses anywhere near as much as maximizing gains. If we feel very few if any worse hands will call here then we should check and hope for a bluff. We are, of course, calling any bet that is made but betting here I feel robs villain of the chance to bluff which is the best way for us to make value here from our hand the way we played it.

 

[fundiver199]

On the river is where I disagree and we should just be checking.

Yes I agree with this. I just did not want to focus on postflop play, when postflop should never have happened in the first place. This thread is named "shoving QQ on the river on a paired board". But a much better name would have been "facing a limp with QQ for 12BB effective", because this was the main decision point in the hand, and it should have been the only one.

 

[ratbat615]

You made a good read but the villain 🦹‍♀️ got lucky 🍀