$1.50 NLHE STT Turbo: 52o in BB, QTQ flop, 2 turn, okay to call?

[vwls]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 50/13/1.8

The subject line may be a little misleading, but given the circumstances, I am near certain that my call was okay. But, I am a new player, and I don't want to say anything with too much certainty.

Game: Double-or-nothing (Five players cash)
Players Remaining: 6/10
My rank: 2/6
Blinds: 250/125, Ante: 25
My stack: 2402 = 9.5BB
Opponent stack: 8997 = 36BB (chip leader)
Other stacks: Two < 3BB, two ≈ 5BB

I am dealt
It folds around to the leader (CO), who limps.
It folds to me (BB), and I check.
We are Heads-up.

Flop:
My action: Check. I clicked "fold to any bet", as soon as I saw the flop.
Opponent: Check.

Turn:
My action: Check. Because I had clicked "fold to any bet", I instantly checked the turn.
Opponent: Bet. A few beats, then min-bet.
My action: Call. My opponent's brief pause gave me the chance to hurriedly un-check "fold to any bet". The following is directly from my notes:

"I had insta-check/fold engaged on the flop, they made the obvious read and bet the turn, but the turn gave me a pair. My read on them, based on their check on the flop, was that they were betting to take it down. Not only would that be a good play in general, but they also had a massive chip lead and could bet any turn that they wanted. It was a good play, on their part, but I happened to pick up some traction on the turn, and I called, knowing that they may not have anything. Their check on the river confirmed it, for me. I would have folded, had they bet the river. Another reason why I went ahead and called was because a player w/ <1 BB would be posting on the next hand. Calling on the turn seemed safe. Folding would have also been safe, but I would rather have the opportunity to win a hand [and see how this hand would play out, for informational and experience purposes]. This was a unique situation, though."

River:
Action: Check-check.

Another thing that I am not sure whether I had considered at the time was my opponent's stats: 50/13/1.8. This could indicate that they had limped with at least one big card, since they hadn't been limping every single hand. Them being aggressive, I figured that evaluating their action on the river would be the deciding factor in how I continued. I couldn't quite bring myself to bet the river, out of position, but I knew that I would fold to a second bet. It was an easy enough decision to make, but was it worth calling for? What if the blinds were larger? What if I was short-stacked?

Spoiler

Opponent shows , and I win the hand.

 

[horizon12]

only check/fold against fish on this boad, he can have any two cards and there is no sense to guess what his cards. Your cards not have equity and fold equity against lose-passive player.

 

[vwls]

I understand that. That is the reason that I clicked "fold to any bet", to begin with. I gave my opponent a reason to bet, by instantly checking. I made a decent indication that I had nothing on the flop. Do you think that it is unsafe to assume that they may have picked up on this tell and bet the minimum, in an attempt to make me instantly fold, rather than to represent a Queen or Ten? Also, they weren't passive.

 

[Hirevr]

Looks fine to me.

 

[ribaric]

i would do the same thing

 

[WiZZiM]

I understand that. That is the reason that I clicked "fold to any bet", to begin with. I gave my opponent a reason to bet, by instantly checking. I made a decent indication that I had nothing on the flop. Do you think that it is unsafe to assume that they may have picked up on this tell and bet the minimum, in an attempt to make me instantly fold, rather than to represent a Queen or Ten? Also, they weren't passive.

yeah you want to kind of avoid thinking this way, you never really know how other players will percieve what you are doing or if they are even paying attention. It's much easier in live games to play around with things like that.

With that said the key thing you need to remember when calling the turn here is that it really didn't change much, we now beat his complete air, but if he has anything on the flop he has us crushed and stuck calling 1-2 streets.

The other thing you need to remember is that vs ATC he has a decent amount of redraw equity vs you, any T 7 or 3 will win him the pot.

This isn't the last street of poker to be played, you really want to think about what you will do on rivers if he double barrells you, how aggressive your opponant is will be a big factor here. Since he seems pretty passive, c/c turn seems totally fine since he will likely check river if he misses or has a bluff. whereas an aggressive player will almost always bet the river, so you are not just calling the turn, you are also calling the river as a bluff catcher.

Just some things to keep in mind for the future.

 

[ProntoGM]

Check-fold is the best strategy here. In this tournament our goal to get to the prize.

 

[vwls]

Thank you all for the responses.

Just some things to keep in mind for the future.

I think that I agree with you, but I'm not entirely clear. I did think about what I was going to do on the river. I was going to fold, should they bet again, but I assumed that there was a good enough chance that they were betting with nothing and that they might not bet the river. My main question is, with this assumption about my opponent's action, do you think that it was a wasted call on the turn, if my plan was to check-fold to a bet on the river? Also, do you really think that I should avoid thinking this way? As you said, my call didn't really change anything. Do you think that my stack was critically affected by calling with the possibility of my opponent giving up their possible bluff? If I were in my opponent's position, I would have done the same thing. Isn't the point of poker that I never really know how my opponents are thinking? Shouldn't I be looking for patterns that may lend a clue as to my opponent's motives?

 

[CupOfSalt]

Looks fine to me too.

 

[WiZZiM]

Thank you all for the responses.



I think that I agree with you, but I'm not entirely clear. I did think about what I was going to do on the river. I was going to fold, should they bet again, but I assumed that there was a good enough chance that they were betting with nothing and that they might not bet the river. My main question is, with this assumption about my opponent's action, do you think that it was a wasted call on the turn, if my plan was to check-fold to a bet on the river?No i think it's fine given our opponant is passive, but i think betting the turn is far superior as it gives us two ways to win the pot, and we're not stuck in a bluff cathing guessing game and it also denies villian equity which is pretty good considering how weak our hand actually is. Also, do you really think that I should avoid thinking this way? As you said, my call didn't really change anything. Do you think that my stack was critically affected by calling with the possibility of my opponent giving up their possible bluff?In this particular spot, no, but it's a dangerous thought process to get into, because we tend to make things up in our heads about other players which may or may not be true. Like most things, anything in moderation is great, but take it to an extreme it becomes a really big leak, so by all means use reads and exploit opponants, but just make sure you are not just making things up in your head to justify making a certain play... If I were in my opponent's position, I would have done the same thing. Isn't the point of poker that I never really know how my opponents are thinking? Shouldn't I be looking for patterns that may lend a clue as to my opponent's motives?Yes sure, but you want to actually have a read on the player, not just assume that he is going to do what you think he is going to do. And we really just want to play good poker, in the above situation, betting is just way better on the turn for the reasons i mentioned above. So we don't even have to get into the thought process above, this will also allow us to play a much simpler gameplan and allow us to play more tables and more volume, which is usually more money.

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[vwls]

Thank you for the response. [EDIT: I didn't realize that it was you again. Thanks again.] I understand and agree with what you are saying, but this situation is unique, in that I had clicked "fold to any bet", and I didn't give myself a chance to bet the turn. What I take from your comments is that I shouldn't be giving up so quickly. Do you think this is the case? Also, I did have a read on my opponent, and I based my assumption on this read. This opponent had been doing this type of thing previously. Mostly due to their stack size, they were taking stabs at everything. Had I given myself the opportunity to bet, what would I do after they call? I was out of position. If I bet again, what if they raise me? What if they call but end up having a ten? I would have lost at least twice as much. What if my stack was smaller? Should I be shoving on a turned five? Lastly, is an aggression factor of 1.8 not aggressive? I keep trying to reiterate that my opponent wasn't passive, but a few people continue to remark on my opponent's passivity. Besides the actual stat, I can see that their action on the flop was passive, but they had been specifically aggressive on turns like this, again due to their chip advantage allowing them to be more aggressive.

 

[joe777]

Yeah checking is rather fine here.