$1.50 NLHE STT: Not happy with how I played JJ

[LuisBoaC]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 32/17/2

Villain has been tight and fairly passive, more inclined to limping than PFRing. Pre-flop I put him on ATs+, AJo+and most pockets pairs. Obviously a bad read. On the flop I thought any K and QQ+ would raise smaller. Wrong again.
What do you think? Did I go wrong pre or post flop?


pokerstars, $1.29 + $0.21 - Hold'em No Limit - 40/80 (10 ante) - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: 1,751 (22 bb)
CO: 1,644 (21 bb)
BU: 2,020 (25 bb)
SB: 5,146 (64 bb)
BB (Hero): 2,939 (37 bb)

Pre-Flop: (170) Hero is BB with J♠ J♦
UTG raises to 330, 3 players fold, Hero calls 250

Flop: (750) 7♦ 4♣ K♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets 720, Hero raises to 2,599 (all-in), UTG calls 691 (all-in)

Turn: (3,572) 2♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (3,572) 7♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 3,572

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows J♠ J♦ (two pair, Jacks and Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 68%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

UTG shows K♥ J♣ (two pair, Kings and Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 32%, Flop: 96%, Turn: 98%, River: 100%)

UTG wins 3,572

 

[puzzlefish]

You should have 4bet his 3bet preflop. That's a very small 3bet and you have a premium pair, so you want to raise to get more value and to test the waters as to what your villain has.

On the flop, your jacks look bad. Your villain is leading out with a pot sized bet. What is this telling you? Do you put him on a lower pair or air? You don't know because your preflop action was too weak. You need to either call or fold here. I would tend to fold. If he holds a Kx, there is very little on this board that you can improve to in order to justify tripling the pot size.

 

[brettlums]

Based on the range you're putting him on when the king comes on the flop and he leads out you gotta find a fold. its hard to let Jacks go but not getting it in pre makes us inclined to fold to any over card unless we catch a set or a redraw.

 

[Jon Poker]

I definitely 3bet the jacks preflop - possibly getting it in anyway depending how loose this player is...but if i flat, go to the flop and he shoves i will likely fold...most players in these low stake buy ins tend to play very straight poker.

 

[LJG23]

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 32/17/2


I'm not sure what the sample size is for this line but this screams 3bet with JJ, especially if this line is from this game only (blinds are only 40/80 that's a lot of action that early in a sng) If he flats and fires after your 3bet then its easier to find the fold button instead of flatting and hoping his range misses. Which btw when the K hits it is in the pre flop range that you gave him, why shove? Might not have been the K you thought he had but a K non the less.

 

[oreleo]

pre flop-shove. flop-fold easy game

 

[SuzdalDEcor]

pre flop-shove. flop-fold easy game

Its a joke?)))) If you push, opp will fold 22-99, AT-AJ! You wanna see the push from this hands!
Flop you`ve got the bluff-catcher. You must play check-call only. And on the turn you must fold vs big size.

 

[scaleyback]

I like not 3 betting pre here and seeing a flop vs a fairly tight UTG raiser.
I hate check 3 bet shoving the flop though, you are only getting called by better.
I would probably check call and float the flop to a small bet and look to get to showdown without investing any more unless my hand improves.

 

[Pulsar]

In my opinion, it's all too obvious after the flop and a raise on the table! Here is an easy fold, as they like to say among poker players or all-in after the flop, if there is a record on the player and he was convicted of bluffing! Although more obvious fold!

 

[LuisBoaC]

Thanks everyone. I agree with all of you that I had to fold the flop. Still think I'll be uncomfortable 3-betting here but I do believe I'm too passive in general and LJG23 your argument in particular has helped me see the merits of the play.

 

[Poker Orifice]

With a VPIP of 32, how do we figure villain to be tight?
And when we assign a range to villain.. we can't just do that in a whimsical fashion .. Like.. he has xyz because it suits me fine that way.

 

[John bruce]

Jj

I may not be as good as the other players but I like to raise five to ten big blind with jj. If utg bigs bets the pot I might call one time. If on the turn he bets I'll get out. I defiantly would not raise. I usually need to see that flop. Any over cards with nice size bet is a give away. It's hard folding pairs but I do it all the time. Wish I would fold AA more often because my only have a win rate of 52 percent over the last year. Been rough year. I would say good luck but I don't believe it's luck. Let's play poker

 

[darpblog]

Shove pre. You are ahead of the range you gave.

 

[Jon Poker]

Thanks everyone. I agree with all of you that I had to fold the flop. Still think I'll be uncomfortable 3-betting here but I do believe I'm too passive in general and LJG23 your argument in particular has helped me see the merits of the play.

Please dont take this the wrong way - but if you are not willing to 3bet jacks in this spot...just fold them and move on. You are missing out on way too many aspects of this hand by not 3betting them. The mistake was made preflop - the rest went downhill from there.

Now as for the advice given to "just shove preflop" - that - in my oppinion - is completely ignorant, you shove and get snapped by KQ or any other 2 overs and you are racing as a slight favorite - you do that into QQ or KK or AA and you are done anyhow unless you luck up on your 2 outter.

3bet preflop, he folds - you win right away - he calls and bets / shoves the flop, you can likely put him on a king and fold - if he 4 bets you preflop, he could have AQ or AK at the worst (unless he is a terrible player), hands like QQ+ are more likely and so if he 4bets - you can fold again and move on.

Why get it all in as a small favorite or as a big under dog? Very bad advice there...

 

[LuisBoaC]

With a VPIP of 32, how do we figure villain to be tight?
And when we assign a range to villain.. we can't just do that in a whimsical fashion .. Like.. he has xyz because it suits me fine that way.

Thank you, agreed. I need to reconsider how I evaluate HUD stats and improve at putting players on a likely/accurate range. I think I believe others are tighter than they are and as a result I play too tight

 

[LuisBoaC]

Please dont take this the wrong way - but if you are not willing to 3bet jacks in this spot...just fold them and move on. You are missing out on way too many aspects of this hand by not 3betting them. The mistake was made preflop - the rest went downhill from there.

Now as for the advice given to "just shove preflop" - that - in my oppinion - is completely ignorant, you shove and get snapped by KQ or any other 2 overs and you are racing as a slight favorite - you do that into QQ or KK or AA and you are done anyhow unless you luck up on your 2 outter.

3bet preflop, he folds - you win right away - he calls and bets / shoves the flop, you can likely put him on a king and fold - if he 4 bets you preflop, he could have AQ or AK at the worst (unless he is a terrible player), hands like QQ+ are more likely and so if he 4bets - you can fold again and move on.

Why get it all in as a small favorite or as a big under dog? Very bad advice there...

Thank you for your detailed and reasoned point. I don't want to be folding JJ here, I'm sure 3-betting was the correct play and will try to remember and utilise that at the tables. I think I often play too passively/nervously, need to get out of my comfort zone sometimes!

 

[Spaceman]

I dont understand. He is utg, preflop you put him on AT+ or pocket pair. You also said to be passive and tight. Then when he bets the pot on the flop why all sets and AK miraculously gone from his range? He gone crazy and start bluffing with A10 on that flop?

On the other hand, who bets the pot on that flop with top pair against utg range vs bb range? The answer is someone who is willing to raise utg KJo, so clearly you werent paying enough attention.

Strange bet sizes especially the big ones are polarised most of the time means bluffs, like on a rainbow 2KK flop someone overbets the pot or shoves, why on earth someone would do that with a K there and lose a ton of value? With what I am supposed to call? But those players exist and the best way to play your JJ there would be knowing your opponent's tendecies.

 

[Flight777sem]

You could find 500 different ways to play this hand and you’ve decided to play one of the worst. Doesn’t make sense , if you gonna show why you’re doing it while there is K on the flop. Do it preflop man

 

[Ovuvuevuevue]

Reraise preflop, fold on the flop. Even kings check/fold with an ace on the board