$1.50 NLHE MTT: Pocket Aces, facing 4bet shove on wet drawy board

[RamdeeBen]

Was in a bit of a pickle on this....

Not sure if calling here is correct, the only thing making me want to call this is that this guy has been quite loose playing lots of pots...

However, I tried putting him on a range of hands and well this smashes his range, 9,10/10,J/Q,J/K,J, and so on...

I obviously decided to raise his lead on the flop, then he 4 bet shoved me..and thought he can never be bluffing here can he? surely he has 2 pair or better here? Possibly a flush draw but then again, we're both quite deep and I've been quite tight, so can't see him bluffing me here.

Is this a laydown? ...



pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 125/250 Blinds 30 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t2260)
SB (t13719)
BB (t137)
UTG (t17024)
UTG+1 (t6233)
MP1 (t4660)
MP2 (t14648)
MP3 (t1592)
Hero (CO) (t18904)

Hero's M: 29.31

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

, A

2 folds, MP1 calls t250, 2 folds, Hero bets t750, 1 fold, SB calls t625, 1 fold

Flop: (t2127) J

, Q

, 8

(3 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets t1250, Hero raises to t3563, SB raises to t12939 (All-In), Hero ??

 

[jbbb]

Any stats on villain?
I've seen people stack some weird stuff in this spot. KJ, TT etc. They just always think you are bluffing. Probably calling here coz it's a $1 MTT so his range is wider than you'd imagine.
Obv if stats show him to be a TAG or not being a dribbler I could probably find a fold.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Any stats on villain?
I've seen people stack some weird stuff in this spot. KJ, TT etc. They just always think you are bluffing. Probably calling here coz it's a $1 MTT so his range is wider than you'd imagine.
Obv if stats show him to be a TAG or not being a dribbler I could probably find a fold.

Yeah...I've seen those funny hands myself. Underpairs even shoving and so on.

No actual stats on villian, but have been watching and he's just been limping/calling raises just in general playing lots of pots but seen him check/folding a few times agaisnt smaller stacks so that's why I'm more inclined in folding here because he played it like he was confident he had the best hand..

I think I'm a "I dont want to fold aces/kings ever, regardless of the board"

 

[WiZZiM]

Yeah i'm getting this in. He can have a lot of stuff here, and we have a blocker with the Ah.

 

[jbbb]

blocker? Blocking what combo's that beat us? (apart from ATh).

Also Ram maybe you should invest in PokerTracker. It's only $40 for the micro version and you seem to play + analyse your game enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[WiZZiM]

Was in a rush earlier when i posted. Didn't really mean to mention the "blocker" as it only really blocks some of the nut flush draws he might be shoving with. So that i guess leaves a few more made hands, but still probably a heap of crap he's willing to go with.

 

[jbbb]

Yep agreed. Also ram its a 3bet not a 4bet (sorry for being pedantic)

 

[Pascal-lf]

see above ^^ it's only a 3bet shove so it's an easy call, you've got backdoor nfd which increases your equity against his range. he can have plenty of draws, pairs + draws, top pairs, etc, and you are never drawing dead

 

[RamdeeBen]

Maybe I'm far to nitty, I thought this was a lay down based on who is shoving on me after I've showed aggression preflop as well as post flop, I raised his initial raise and he 3 bet shoves me..surely I thought we was beat by 2 pair at the least as these sort of boards are the types of boards people just flat with raises, broadway cards. I can't see him ever shoving an under pair here and coulden't see him shoving a draw on me as he knows I have quite a big hand therefore I thought I was beat most likely to be losing to either 2pair/set or 9,10..

Yeah sorry, I meant 3bet, not 4bet

 

[BlueNowhere]

I've never folded aces on any flop in a tourney at this BI. 90% of the time I nearly have I've ended up thinking **** it and calling and I'm good. At this level AA in this spot I'm just getting it in because people just love to spaz out with draws, top pair, middle pair, hell even an underpair to the board wouldn't surprise me.

 

[jbbb]

Would depend on reads. The comments given are based on a usual player you'd find in a $1 tournament. If you thought this guy wasn't that bad maybe it'd be a fold. Its all reads dependent. Out of interest what did you do?

 

[baudib1]

Don't raise the flop.

As played, I'm actually inclined to fold BECAUSE we have the Ah. But for sure I'd just call flop. He's going to play really poorly on a huge number of turn cards.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Would depend on reads. The comments given are based on a usual player you'd find in a $1 tournament. If you thought this guy wasn't that bad maybe it'd be a fold. Its all reads dependent. Out of interest what did you do?

I folded. 5 hands later I busted with A,K vs his Queens on a A,Q,5rain bow board. He played exactly the same, this time I snap called his shove, he turned over pocket queens, gg.

Don't raise the flop.

As played, I'm actually inclined to fold BECAUSE we have the Ah. But for sure I'd just call flop. He's going to play really poorly on a huge number of turn cards.

Really? Isn't raising here good in general because this board is such a semi bluff sort of raising board that we can get "flat" called and a dead card hit the turn and we fire out and take it down in general. I thought just flatting the flop bet seemed quite weak and means him hitting one of his many potential outs.

You fold because we hold Ah? What/Why can you explain what you mean please.

 

[baudib1]

No, raising is terrible, especially if you don't know what to do when he shoves over. If he had checked, you'd probably do the same thing that he did, so what does it matter if he bets it or you bet it?

If we are behind, there are way more turn cards that are good for us than him. If we're ahead, I don't like his chances of playing profitably. In either case, he's going to play the turn pretty badly most of the time.

Our equity is better vs. his shoving range if we have two black aces because it gives him a lot more flush draws.

 

[Poker Orifice]

No, raising is terrible, especially if you don't know what to do when he shoves over. If he had checked, you'd probably do the same thing that he did, so what does it matter if he bets it or you bet it?

If we are behind, there are way more turn cards that are good for us than him. If we're ahead, I don't like his chances of playing profitably. In either case, he's going to play the turn pretty badly most of the time.

Our equity is better vs. his shoving range if we have two black aces because it gives him a lot more flush draws.

this ^

... also, I'm kinda surprised by some of the responses on here that we'd call cuz we basically put villain on huge % spazz factor (ie. MP, underpair, etc.)' really?

 

[Pascal-lf]

it's an mtt you have an overpair get it in

 

[baudib1]

I'm not for folding top pair+ very often and yeah probably have to cry call here but I am hating life for sure after this 3ball.

Reads would really help but it's not normal for even bad players to donk/3b KQ here so we're looking at a FML range of like QJ/T9/88/JJ/AQ(have blockers) and combo draws KJ-KT-JT-J9-K9 of hearts.