$1.10 NL HE MTT: $1.10 Zoom: Pot control or make them pay for draw?

Dobbler1

Dobbler1

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pokerstars, $0.98 + $0.12 - Hold'em No Limit - 40/80 (10 ante) - 9 players
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stocken08 (UTG): 6,279 (78 bb)
Cremefüllung (UTG+1): 4,129 (52 bb)
kratax23 (MP): 3,958 (49 bb)
BluffingSP (MP+1): 6,006 (75 bb)
xxxzappar (LP): 4,079 (51 bb)
arsenal85bs (CO): 4,238 (53 bb)
ALmost PRo0 (BU): 13,376 (167 bb)
dobbler1 (SB): 4,585 (57 bb)
SRocky_41 (BB): 5,137 (64 bb)


Pre-Flop:
(210) Hero (dobbler1) is SB with Q 7
2 players fold, kratax23 (MP) calls 80, 1 fold, xxxzappar (LP) calls 80, 1 fold, ALmost PRo0 (BU) calls 80, dobbler1 (SB) calls 40, SRocky_41 (BB) checks

Flop: (490) Q T Q (5 players)
dobbler1 (SB) checks, SRocky_41 (BB) bets 80, kratax23 (MP) raises to 160, 2 players fold, dobbler1 (SB) raises to 1,050, SRocky_41 (BB) raises to 1,940, kratax23 (MP) folds, dobbler1 (SB) raises to 4,495 (all-in), SRocky_41 (BB) calls 2,555

Turn: (9,640) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (9,640) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 9,640

Showdown:
dobbler1 (SB) shows Q 7 (three of a kind, Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 59%, Flop: 78%, Turn: 39%, River: 0%)

SRocky_41 (BB) shows 4 5 (a flush, Queen high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 41%, Flop: 22%, Turn: 61%, River: 100%)

SRocky_41 (BB) wins 9,640


:diamond: :club: ❤️ :spade:
 
F

fundiver199

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Preflop
In a game with antes its ok to complete almost any hand from SB. But with that being said Q7o is so bad, that folding would be fine as well.

Flop
When I connect with the board in a limped pot, my default play is to lead out. But that being said here its so multiway, that most likely someone is going to bet, and then you can get more money in by going for a check-raise. And this is exactly, what happened. The action is very funky with a min-bet and then a min-raise, but we can just see this as basically someone betting 160 and then someone calling. I dont think, the raise from 80 to 160 signal any kind of strenght. Its probably just a player, who misclicked, is so bad, he has no idea, what he is doing, or is deliberately trying to freeze action by "raising". So I am totally on board with putting in a real raise and go from there.

No know BB min-raise you, and this is actually somewhat concerning, because most of the time a min-bet then 3-bet line is actually a very strong hand. So he is kind of saying, that he has trips as well, if not even a boat. But even so I would also just get it in. If he has you outkicked, there are decent shop opportunities, and this is a very low buyin, where people will sometimes just be taking a very weird line with weird hands. I also think, the strongest QX hand like AQ or KQ would be more likely to have raised pre. So I somewhat discount those, as I also discount TT for the same reason.

Results
So he had the flushdraw, and its obviously not shocking, he at least had something. Basically the hand is a bad beat story, and we do not use pot control to avoid bad beats. We use pot control to avoid getting into a situation, where we have a good hand, but we play it so fast, that only better hands give us action. This is not, what happened here, so everything is fine.
 
kunkgreen

kunkgreen

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Preflop
In a game with antes its ok to complete almost any hand from SB. But with that being said Q7o is so bad, that folding would be fine as well.

I believe we can finish here! LOL

Some situations like the type of game (6-max, 9... etc), buy-in level, stack size, etc etc...
and the fact of having an ante can incline us to call the sb with bad hands like this one.
I would only enter this spot knowing that bb is a bad player.
But one thing I've noticed a lot...
late position (pre-flop) spots at micro stakes are bizarre...
and I almost always see good players losing a lot of chips when a simple fold would solve the problem.

Anyway, as always, I agree with the aforementioned points.
 
eetenor

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PokerStars, $0.98 + $0.12 - Hold'em No Limit - 40/80 (10 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

stocken08 (UTG): 6,279 (78 bb)
Cremefüllung (UTG+1): 4,129 (52 bb)
kratax23 (MP): 3,958 (49 bb)
BluffingSP (MP+1): 6,006 (75 bb)
xxxzappar (LP): 4,079 (51 bb)
arsenal85bs (CO): 4,238 (53 bb)
ALmost PRo0 (BU): 13,376 (167 bb)
dobbler1 (SB): 4,585 (57 bb)
SRocky_41 (BB): 5,137 (64 bb)


Pre-Flop:
(210) Hero (dobbler1) is SB with Q 7
2 players fold, kratax23 (MP) calls 80, 1 fold, xxxzappar (LP) calls 80, 1 fold, ALmost PRo0 (BU) calls 80, dobbler1 (SB) calls 40, SRocky_41 (BB) checks

Flop: (490) Q T Q (5 players)
dobbler1 (SB) checks, SRocky_41 (BB) bets 80, kratax23 (MP) raises to 160, 2 players fold, dobbler1 (SB) raises to 1,050, SRocky_41 (BB) raises to 1,940, kratax23 (MP) folds, dobbler1 (SB) raises to 4,495 (all-in), SRocky_41 (BB) calls 2,555

Turn: (9,640) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (9,640) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 9,640

Showdown:
dobbler1 (SB) shows Q 7 (three of a kind, Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 59%, Flop: 78%, Turn: 39%, River: 0%)

SRocky_41 (BB) shows 4 5 (a flush, Queen high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 41%, Flop: 22%, Turn: 61%, River: 100%)

SRocky_41 (BB) wins 9,640


:diamond: :club: ❤️ :spade:
Thinking only about the flush draw is an error vs that hand you played perfectly-However the range of hands your Villains could have and play like this lean more to made hands not draws-

We have a strong hand but vulnerable-check raising is fine-your sizing large- how does that refine the Villains ranges?
Ranges are going to become very condensed- So you are going to play vs strong draws- and made hands Qx- TT - most Tx hands will fold JJ folds some %. That is what we are thinking when we make it 1K- Would we also make it 1K with a full house?

We then have the BB click it back- we want to think about the full range that does that- In these low games when there are soo many limpers the BB may just check with AQ often just check with KQ very often QJ QT Q9 Q8 TT

Standard players will often just call their flush draws unless they are combo draws KhJh Jh9h AhJh that makes us not want to get all-in on the flop with our holding vs a standard range.
 
Dobbler1

Dobbler1

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I wouldn't have questioned the hand in a cash game, which is what I mainly play. I just wondered if the fact that it was for my tournament life should make a difference.
 
eetenor

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I wouldn't have questioned the hand in a cash game, which is what I mainly play. I just wondered if the fact that it was for my tournament life should make a difference.
Yes exactly--- tournament play can be very different from cash game play in spots like this- If you are early in a rebuy tournament you can play cash game strat- IE just use raw equity to make your decisions- tournament play without the rebuy has to balance stack protection with chip accumulation
 
dallam

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For me it's a big problem to make a call here and limp because its cheap.

I mean what outcomes can bring us glory with Q7o in a 5-way action from SB? If you would sitting on BB and forced to see the flop by a check, I would say let's take a look at this one, but you give yourself hard times.

57bbs is a huge amount of chips and you have nothing to defend. In a Zoom tourney especially just simply fold and move on to the next hand with this still cool stack, and maybe giving you better hand and position as well.
 
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fundiver199

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In a Zoom tourney especially just simply fold and move on to the next hand with this still cool stack, and maybe giving you better hand and position as well.
This is actually a good point. If we believe, we have a skill edge on the field, and in a $1.1 MTT, that should hopefully be the case, then there is an opportunity cost of taking on a very marginal spot like this. Multiway limped pots often take a long time to play out, because a bunch of people have to make a decision on the flop, and if it gets checked though, or there is a small bet and multible calls, then everyone has to make a new decision on the turn and potentially even river as well. And during all that time we could have Zoomed on and seen 2-3 more hands, where we could perhaps have gotten into a significantly more profitable spot.
 
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