$1.1 NLHE MTT: What do you think about range of opponent?

Edu1

Edu1

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is hard, i had to see the replay two times
and i think you slow play this hand so much
but i think he is not bluffing this time, he could have the best hand with 54, A7, 33, K7
the bluff range is any Ace high or a missed flush draw with Ad
 
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fundiver199

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I would never see the river like this, because I would either lead the flop or check-raise the flop. Check-calling puts you in an awkward spot, where you allow other players to control the action and determine the size of the pot, and there are many different ways, someone can draw out on your two pair.

As played I am calling him down. It got checked around on the turn, so its very ambitious by him to go for a check-raise for value. There is a high risk, it gets checked through, and most likely noone has a hand, that is strong enough to call a check-raise. So I think, he is leading with all his value range.

If on the other hand he had a busted draw, he was planning to give up. But then you made a big bet, which could look a little bluffy, and you got BTN to fold. So now he only had to worry about you, and by check-raising he put you to the test for your tournament life. And it worked, since he got you to lay down a very strong hand.
 
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Sidetracked

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With the flush draw and the low connected cards on the flop, you have to lead here. 3 way (particularly with a limper on the button) there is a high probability that one of the other 2 players will have enough to continue. Betting the flop also helps to define your opponent's hands and ranges better, rather than leaving you in this situation where you are completely lost by the time the river comes.
 
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fundiver199

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With the flush draw and the low connected cards on the flop, you have to lead here. 3 way (particularly with a limper on the button) there is a high probability that one of the other 2 players will have enough to continue. Betting the flop also helps to define your opponent's hands and ranges better, rather than leaving you in this situation where you are completely lost by the time the river comes.

I agree. We dont even need to check-raise to get it in against BTN, when he only started with 20BB, and its a disaster, if he check behind. Which he probably will do quite a bit. He is a short stack, he just limped preflop, and its 3-way action. So if he missed this flop, he is probably just giving up and saving his chips for the next hand. If on the other hand he is strong enough to bet, then he is also strong enough to call.
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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is hard, i had to see the replay two times
and i think you slow play this hand so much
but i think he is not bluffing this time, he could have the best hand with 54, A7, 33, K7
the bluff range is any Ace high or a missed flush draw with Ad
His bluffs must bet 1st. He will never played check-raise with bluffs in 3way spot, because our range of bet will be very strong.
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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I would never see the river like this, because I would either lead the flop or check-raise the flop.
It is your troubles ;) I think you will never play same with bluffs, right? So, against you i will ever fold 44-99 and hand 23 xD.
In this spot we have 100500 middle hands and middle dro, so i will never play check-raise with face ap range. With lead range same.
 
Gohaku94

Gohaku94

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I would bet myself on that flop with 2 limpers.. you got lucky he bet on the Button then the sb called.. I would just shove right there after that action
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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With the flush draw and the low connected cards on the flop, you have to lead here. 3 way (particularly with a limper on the button) there is a high probability that one of the other 2 players will have enough to continue. Betting the flop also helps to define your opponent's hands and ranges better, rather than leaving you in this situation where you are completely lost by the time the river comes.


The problem is, it's a limp stop. We just have no good draw... All of good draws will be raised preflop. SB and button had better draws than us. When we hit our dro, we cant bet anymore.

You`ve got very low range and you try to lead. I always call all broadway cards with any kicker. And my hand will be better most of times like in this:
 

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SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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I would bet myself on that flop with 2 limpers.. you got lucky he bet on the Button then the sb called.. I would just shove right there after that action
My answer was: "What do you think about his range?"
I have played with max $EV and I don't want to argue about it.
 
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fundiver199

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It is your troubles ;) I think you will never play same with bluffs, right?

For sure I will also lead or check-raise with some draws in a limped pot. I dont like to always take the most passive line possible.
 
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fundiver199

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My answer was: "What do you think about his range?"

I have played with max $EV and I don't want to argue about it.

If you dont want people to discuss your hand, then dont post it in a forum. The final decision facing his check-raise is largely irrelevant, if the hand should have been played different up until that point. You lost more than half of your chips and did not even get to showdown with a very strong hand. That alone should tell you, something is wrong in this hand.

But to answer your question, I think, he can be doing this for value with 54s, 33, 22 and Ad7d, which is a total of 9 combos. I dont think, he has KK or AK, because he would have raised that preflop, and I dont think, he would call an overbet on the flop with less than top pair or a good draw, so I dont think, he can have A2 or A3 either.

As for his bluffs, it will basically be busted diamond draws, but the real question is, does he even bluff with this line. And looking at it again probably not. A raise on the river is usually the nuts in micro stakes games.

I just hate, that we even put ourselfes in this spot, because it frankly sucks. Even just a smaller bet size on the river would leave more room to bet-fold with more of our stack preserved. And what hands are we targeting with this size? Their range is mostly KX, busted diamonds and slowplayed monsters, so I would pick a size, that KX is willing to call.
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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If you dont want people to discuss your hand, then dont post it in a forum. The final decision facing his check-raise is largely irrelevant, if the hand should have been played different up until that point. You lost more than half of your chips and did not even get to showdown with a very strong hand. That alone should tell you, something is wrong in this hand.

But to answer your question, I think, he can be doing this for value with 54s, 33, 22 and Ad7d, which is a total of 9 combos. I dont think, he has KK or AK, because he would have raised that preflop, and I dont think, he would call an overbet on the flop with less than top pair or a good draw, so I dont think, he can have A2 or A3 either.

As for his bluffs, it will basically be busted diamond draws, but the real question is, does he even bluff with this line. And looking at it again probably not. A raise on the river is usually the nuts in micro stakes games.

I just hate, that we even put ourselfes in this spot, because it frankly sucks. Even just a smaller bet size on the river would leave more room to bet-fold with more of our stack preserved. And what hands are we targeting with this size? Their range is mostly KX, busted diamonds and slowplayed monsters, so I would pick a size, that KX is willing to call.


Please re-read my 1st post. I says what I'd like to discuss. I've played a thousand spots like this on FT or pre-FT and I don't want to discuss how to play it right. I would like to know your opinion about his range. Thanks ;)

I have played in a middle stakes. The main difference from micro, less fishes, more regs. And they play the same way that fishes that regs.
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It is not a frankly sucks xDDDDD I am sure if i raised flop, i was ends 6th, not a second xD
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Tnx for you feedback ;)
 
gardin555

gardin555

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When you post you cannot abstract a part of the hand without analyzing or commenting the whole hand and your line of movement, for that you post (and to learn I guess), the one who answers you, will give an opinion of the whole hand including the range of the opponent that was your question.
If you are doing a post then you have to be more open mentally in my humble opinion.


About the hand: your line of play is not understood, what do you want to achieve with slowplay this hand? you have two pairs in the flop, aren´t the nuts, any set wins to your hand, so you have to defend those two pairs in the flop, how? with a bet, that way u are checking if the others players in the hand have some good hand or not, u bet there not only for value, for information too.

If you dont bet there, then you are let to the other players achieve their set or any better hand than yours in the other streets, and very cheap.
The villian could bet on the river with any two cards to make you fold, he was the big stack too, but if you said that he is a tight players, then I think he could had an A with high kicker, enough to win to you.
He could thought that u bluffed at river, and following your line of move in a whole hand, he did a good move to make you fold.
I hope I have answered your question and better luck the nex time. :)
 
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fundiver199

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I am sure if i raised flop, i was ends 6th, not a second

My main suggestion is to lead the flop. Assuming they just call, then the difference on the turn is, that now you have the initiative, so you can naturally put in another bet and charge them to draw. If SB then check-raise all in, you still have a decision to make.

However that being said as played I would still check-raise the flop. You essentially have the nuts, and if someone flopped a set on you, or they get there with a draw, it just is, what it is. Your hand is certainly strong enough on the flop to get it all in.

On the turn and river its a bit more blurry, because now a straight is possible, and some better two pairs as well, although its up for debate, just how likely these are.
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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When you post you cannot abstract a part of the hand without analyzing or commenting the whole hand and your line of movement, for that you post (and to learn I guess), the one who answers you, will give an opinion of the whole hand including the range of the opponent that was your question.
If you are doing a post then you have to be more open mentally in my humble opinion.


About the hand: your line of play is not understood, what do you want to achieve with slowplay this hand? you have two pairs in the flop, aren´t the nuts, any set wins to your hand, so you have to defend those two pairs in the flop, how? with a bet, that way u are checking if the others players in the hand have some good hand or not, u bet there not only for value, for information too.

If you dont bet there, then you are let to the other players achieve their set or any better hand than yours in the other streets, and very cheap.
The villian could bet on the river with any two cards to make you fold, he was the big stack too, but if you said that he is a tight players, then I think he could had an A with high kicker, enough to win to you.
He could thought that u bluffed at river, and following your line of move in a whole hand, he did a good move to make you fold.
I hope I have answered your question and better luck the nex time. :)


Again bla bla bla... What about ranges?
 
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