$0.5 NLHE STT: Is it right to be shoving here at the bubble?

[cosyglo]

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T120/T240
Buy-in: $0.50 Sit & Go (Turbo)
full tilt poker
4 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com - Mac OS X hand history analysis and tracking

Stacks:
UTG - Hero (T1,110) (Vpip 23/PFR 16/AG 53)
BTN - BTN (T4,370) (13/5/62)
SB - SB (T1,555) (33/21/31)
BB - BB (T6,465) (18/10/75)

Preflop: (T360, 4 players) Hero is UTG with Js Ts
Hero raises to T1,110 (all-in), 2 folds, BB calls T870

Flop: Ac 9d 5c (T2,340, 2 players - BB: T5,355, Hero: T0)

Turn: Ks (T2,340, 2 players - BB: T5,355, Hero: T0)

River: 3s (T2,340, 2 players - BB: T5,355, Hero: T0)

Total Pot: T2,340
Hero shows Js Ts
BB shows Kc 4s
Hero shows Js Ts (Ace King high)
BB shows Kc 4s (a pair of Kings)

BB wins T2,340


Just wondering, is it right to shove here? I ended up getting knocked out and it seems to happen me a lot. JTs here and it happened with 55 as well. Im basically just trying to pick up the blinds because I'm so short stacked. I think they probably fold enough of the time to make it worthwhile, and when they don't I'm probably still in with some sort of chance most of the time, but its still annoying.

 

[WiZZiM]

oh yeah, this is a shove with close to ATC (any two cards).

the real mistakes were likely made before we got to this point though. the fact that you are questioning this shove leads me to believe that you are playing way too tight. basically, if you folded your way into this stack, then you made a heap of mistakes before you got to this hand. we still have FE (folding equity) left here, if we fold we get hit by the blinds and we are going to be completely screwed next orbit.

 

[cosyglo]

Thanks, Yeah I thought that, I think I may be playing too tight as I seem to constantly lose the flips so Im inclined not to go for it. I calculated over 165 tourneys and 10318 hands my overall equity is down almost 500 chips per tournament. I'm going to leave FT and head somewhere else, recommendations?

 

[BluffMeAllIn]

hi cosyglo, 888 or titan would be the only two places I can think of if you still looking in the same price for stt's.....stars is 1.50, merge and wpn networks (carbon and bcp for example) are 1$ and 1.5$ respectively i believe and bovada is 3$.

Also ft is fairly soft in comparison to say stars for example. I don't think the site is the issue, sounds like you need to do some work on your game and IMO best to do it for cheap as possible when it comes to basics like loosening up as the table gets more short handed and blinds start to go up.

 

[cosyglo]

Hi, yeah Ive changed to 888 now, the bonuses should help me out anyway there.

Its probably all in my head, but after 10000 hands I just haven't got a break on FT so I just want a fresh start. Although I shoved on 888 with AQo and 5BB left and got knocked out by Q8, not a great start.

So in terms of late stage play I should be open shoving with a wide range on the button and SB, say 50-60%? Does this not lead to players just letting it go for a few hands and then nailing you with any sort of Broadways or mid-high pairs etc.

 

[WiZZiM]

depends lol.

and it's not full tilt by the sounds of it. post problem hands, or ones you think you should shove but dont.

 

[cosyglo]

888 Poker - $0.50+$0.10|100/200 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

UTG: 15.1 BB (VPIP: 21.74, PFR: 17.39, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 23)
MP: 14.72 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
CO: 17.32 BB (VPIP: 52.17, PFR: 30.43, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 23)
BTN: 3.38 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 23)
SB: 8.77 BB (VPIP: 30.43, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
Hero (BB): 8.23 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7d 7c
fold, fold, CO raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, fold

CO wins 2.5 BB


Pair of 77s in the BB? That would be one there I didn't feel like shoving, I often seem to just get an awful lot of unplayable hands (Or so I think) around that stage too. Say K4o on the button with 6BB and 2 average players in the blind? Is that a shove really?

Thanks for the advice btw!

 

[WiZZiM]

is 4x his normal raise sizing?

 

[WiZZiM]

if it is his normal bet sizing, i'd probably be calling this preflop, with the intention of shoving any flop. we don't have folding equity preflop, but we can create some postflop. shoving wouldn't be horrible, we're likely ahead of his range, but we're almost always flipping here.

if he has been 3xing and suddenly makes it 4x, i'd likely fold.

 

[cosyglo]

Ok, Thanks for that.

These two hands basically sum up what I'm talking about with FT. I know the site obviously isn't playing against me but I just can't catch any sort of break.

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T150/T300
Buy-in: $0.50 Sit & Go (Turbo)
Full Tilt Poker
5 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com - Mac OS X hand history analysis and tracking

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T3,395)
CO - CO (T2,730)
BTN - BTN (T1,110)
SB - Hero (T2,060)
BB - BB (T4,205)

Preflop: (T450, 5 players) Hero is SB with Kh Tc
UTG calls T300, 2 folds, Hero raises to T2,060 (all-in), 1 fold, UTG calls T1,760

Flop: Qs 3h Jd (T4,420, 2 players - Hero: T0, UTG: T1,335)

Turn: Js (T4,420, 2 players - Hero: T0, UTG: T1,335)

River: Qd (T4,420, 2 players - Hero: T0, UTG: T1,335)

Total Pot: T4,420
Hero shows Kh Tc
UTG shows 9c Qc
Hero shows Kh Tc (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
UTG shows 9c Qc (a full house, Queens full of Jacks)

UTG wins T4,420


_________________________________________

No Limit Hold'em Tournament T50/T100
Buy-in: $0.50 Sit & Go (Turbo)
Full Tilt Poker
6 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com - Mac OS X hand history analysis and tracking

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T1,162)
MP - Hero (T1,110)
CO - CO (T4,175)
BTN - BTN (T4,966)
SB - SB (T847)
BB - BB (T1,240)

Preflop: (T150, 6 players) Hero is MP with Jh Ah
UTG calls T100, Hero raises to T1,110 (all-in), 2 folds, SB calls T797 (all-in), 2 folds, Uncalled bet of T263 returned to Hero

Flop: 4h 4d 9s (T1,894, 2 players - SB: T0, Hero: T263)

Turn: Ks (T1,894, 2 players - SB: T0, Hero: T263)

River: Tc (T1,894, 2 players - SB: T0, Hero: T263)

Total Pot: T1,894
Hero shows Jh Ah
SB shows 9d Qd
Hero shows Jh Ah (a pair of Fours)
SB shows 9d Qd (two pair, Nines and Fours)

SB wins T1,894

____________________________________
Im just constantly getting caught like that when Im ahead and it really annoys me. Its definitely happened at least 200/300 times. Is this standard enough to get a long downswing like this? Should I just stick it out?

Thanks

 

[WiZZiM]

perhaps you are just remembering the ones where you got all in and lost? you seem short in all of those hands, so perhaps loosen up on the button and especially when you are in the SB only facing one opponent.

hands all seem like good shoves, the KToff is questionable, if he limps really wide then it's probably ok, still pretty borderline since it's unlikely that villian folds, we need a hand that crushes his range.

 

[1947kings]

thanks friends whatever tips you have shared is good even as did a lot of times the same thing

 

[Arjonius]

Be honest with yourself. If you're not beating .50 games over any decent-sized sample, changing where you play is basically a way to address the symptom rather than the most likely cause, which is simply that your game isn't up to snuff.

Since these games tend to involve a lot of push-fold play, that's an obvious area to focus on improving.

And be aware that .50 +.10 imposes a high barrier to profitability since you start each game -17%.

 

[cosyglo]

I am trying to look at it realistically, but in your opinions is it normal for equity to be down over 80000 chips in 180 games? It's just incredibly frustrating.
My game in general - I play quite tight ~top 10%, and won't commit too many chips unless I have a decent draw or top pair etc. I almost always end up quite short stacked when in gets to 5-6 players, having 7-10 BB and picking a spot for shoving as above, and lose quite a lot.
Any suggestions?

 

[skrsh76]

Generally as you get less than 20BB you should loosen up pick your spots, shove against mid stacks against whom you will have more fold equity. Use this site to get some idea.

www.pushfoldcharts.com

 

[cosyglo]

So even as high as 15BB or so it should still be shove/fold situation? Mostly?
And in your experience what looseness would you say? 44+, A8s+,KJ+?

 

[WiZZiM]

Generally as you get less than 20BB you should loosen up pick your spots, shove against mid stacks against whom you will have more fold equity. Use this site to get some idea.

www.pushfoldcharts.com

can you stop posting this info. this is NASH equilibrium. this is the second time i know of that you have posted this chart. anytime you hear something that is "unexploitable" it is always nash. now in micro games this might work ok, but it's a defensive strategy that is designed basically for playing at really high levels where no one makes mistakes. or in mid-staked games against very good players who you are having a bit of meta-game with, you might decide to just shove/fold nash to stop the mind games.

what we want to do is play an exploitative strategy against bad players who won't call wide enough. basically, if we use NASH like you push/fold chart suggests, and they don't call as wide as nash, we're burning money.

i'm sending you my push/fold chart i used when i first started out op, it's based off ICM and is exploitative. you should be able to crush with it. HOWEVER.....


this is just a quick fix. to be able to fully grow as a player, you will need to adjust your push/calling ranges to suit whoever is in the blinds. also, i'd recommend loosening up with 20-15bb stacks, as you will never grow as a poker player unless you put yourself in unusual spots postflop. so feel free to try out this chart when you have 12bb stacks or less, you will make a lot less mistakes with it, but also, loosen up with 25-15bb stacks and start raising/c-betting most flops against tight players in the blinds. i want you to have that weird feeling when you raise j5s from the button and you get called from the bb and you miss the flop/c-bet and you take the pot

 

[cosyglo]

I thought about it and did the obvious thing and changed back to the standard games rather than turbos! Suits me a lot better as I can stay tighter, play more post flop with a decent stack size rather than just getting blinded down quickly. And the time doesn't really make much difference as I can play 3 rather than 2 at a time.

Hopefully this should allow me to pick things up and improve at a more reasonable pace!