$0.10 NLHE STT Turbo: AKo in a multi-way pot?

[AviCKter]

$0.10 NLHE MTT Turbo: AKo in a multi-way pot?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.1 Tournament, 3,500/7,000 Blinds 700 Ante (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

BB (t30,290)
UTG (t77,088)
MP1 (t68,252)
MP2 (t4,310)
Hero (CO) (t16,518)
Button (t51,337)
SB (t43,019)

Hero's M: 1.07

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, A

UTG raises to t14,000, 1 fold, MP2 calls t3,610 (All-In), Hero??

 

[horizon12]

Its not mistake you have only 2bb ?

With this short stack, AK monster hand so easy shove lol

 

[AviCKter]

Yes, I do only have 2BB, which calls for extreme measures. But my concern here is AKo goes down in value in a multi-way pot and there were more player to act behind me, which could take me further down in terms of equity.

 

[PBG789]

MP2 is almost irrelevant in this situation. You are only playing 3610 against them and your other 12K is against UTG. This isn't really a multiway pot in that sense. You can lose to MP2 and beat UTG and still come out of the hand ahead.

Even if that weren't the case how much longer are you going to wait? You are highly unlikely to find a better spot.

You shouldn't even have to think about this - it's an auto-shove.

 

[WiZZiM]

snap call far wider than AK.

 

[WiZZiM]

Yes, I do only have 2BB, which calls for extreme measures. But my concern here is AKo goes down in value in a multi-way pot and there were more player to act behind me, which could take me further down in terms of equity.

you have no equity in this tournament, you are basically done. there is only one reason to have a 2bb stack in this spot, you just recently ( in the last few hands) lost a big all in and you are left with this amount of chips.

The fact you are wondering about this spot leads me to believe (i'm speculating here) that you are playing way too tight. Of course you will believe you are playing fine, but usually the biggest leak people have in tournaments is playing too tight, and blinding themselves out of the tournament (if this is not you, then disregard)

The question i like to ask people is this..

would you rather get your stack of chips in with 5BB and 60% equity?
or would you rather you get a 10BB stack in with 30% equity?

 

[hffjd2000]

With M so low and a very strong hand, auto call.

You cant find any better than this.

 

[titomurcia1214]

In a turbo tournament bet low and high blind AK only means one thing .... ALLIN

 

[SnowedIn]

lol 2BBs you have to call pretty much any two cards here and you're asking if you should with one of the best? Especially as the guy who has 0.5BB clearly has two random cards

 

[AviCKter]

you have no equity in this tournament, you are basically done. there is only one reason to have a 2bb stack in this spot, you just recently ( in the last few hands) lost a big all in and you are left with this amount of chips.

The fact you are wondering about this spot leads me to believe (i'm speculating here) that you are playing way too tight. Of course you will believe you are playing fine, but usually the biggest leak people have in tournaments is playing too tight, and blinding themselves out of the tournament (if this is not you, then disregard)

The question i like to ask people is this..

would you rather get your stack of chips in with 5BB and 60% equity?
or would you rather you get a 10BB stack in with 30% equity?

I play tight, in fact I become rock sometime.
My experience with AKo in multi way hadn't been that good, it doesn't play out well for me. This one was like a reminder.

FYI: I did call.
The funny thing to all said auto call, the guy next to me shoved and the OR called. And spoiler, it was ATs vs AKs vs AKo(mine) vs JJ.

 

[AviCKter]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.1 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

MP2 (t1,690)
MP3 (t4,218)
Hero (CO) (t875)
Button (t1,685)
SB (t5,855)
BB (t4,190)
UTG (t4,015)
UTG+1 (t1,045)
MP1 (t3,015)

Hero's M: 9.72

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, A

1 fold, UTG+1 calls t60, 1 fold, MP2 calls t60, MP3 calls t60, Hero raises to t875 (All-In), 1 fold, SB raises to t5,855 (All-In), 1 fold, UTG+1 calls t985 (All-In), 2 folds

Flop: (t3,145) 3

, 2

, 5

(3 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: (t3,145) 4

(3 players, 3 all-in)

River: (t3,145) 10

(3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: t3,145

Results below:

Spoiler

SB had Q

, 10

(one pair, tens).
UTG+1 had 6

, A

(straight, six high).
Hero had K

, A

(straight, five high).
Outcome: UTG+1 won t3,145

 

[AviCKter]

These are just today's first few, I can keep going!

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0.11 Tournament, 20/40 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

UTG (t8,890)
UTG+1 (t2,730)
MP1 (t3,720)
MP2 (t3,000)
MP3 (t3,000)
CO (t285)
Button (t7,840)
Hero (SB) (t6,110)
BB (t6,105)

Hero's M: 101.83

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, A

UTG raises to t120, UTG+1 calls t120, MP1 raises to t240, 2 folds, CO raises to t285 (All-In), Button calls t285, Hero calls t265, 1 fold, UTG calls t165, UTG+1 calls t165, MP1 calls t45

Flop: (t1,750) Q

, 6

, 4

(6 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets t3,435 (All-In), Button raises to t6,870, Hero folds, 2 folds

Turn: (t8,620) 6

(3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t8,620) 8

(3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t8,620

Results below:

Spoiler

Button had J

, Q

(two pair, Queens and sixes).
MP1 had A

, A

(two pair, Aces and sixes).
CO had 6

, 10

(three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: MP1 won t6,870, CO won t1,750

 

[Frontiere]

with only 2 BB its obvious, less then 4 BB - any two will do

 

[PBG789]

I'm not really sure what your point is in posting these hands. You will obviously lose with AK sometimes... you will get it in good and lose and you will get it in bad and lose BUT over a large sample of hands you will win more often than you lose. Really if you are worrying about playing AK because it might lose then maybe poker isn't for you.

 

[WiZZiM]

I play tight, in fact I become rock sometime.
My experience with AKo in multi way hadn't been that good, it doesn't play out well for me. This one was like a reminder.

FYI: I did call.
The funny thing to all said auto call, the guy next to me shoved and the OR called. And spoiler, it was ATs vs AKs vs AKo(mine) vs JJ.

"experience" comes from playing a lot and seeing a lot of action/all ins. everyone has their own experience or bias. But the problem is that if you play like a rock, you really don't have that much experience of seeing a lot of all ins. The funny thing with the way our brains are designed is that they are programmed to basically remember the bad things, like losing all in pots with AK, but they fail to remember as well the times when we got AQ in behind and sucked out. This is due to us being kind of results orientated, losing is bad, winning is good. So what this means is that alot of the time when we win with AK in a multiway pot, we probably just instantly forget about it and thus will not recall it happened because something good happened. Just speculating here btw, not saying this is what's happening, just saying that our brains like to play tricks on us alot in poker, knowing that is half the battle

fwiw i don't think it really matters what you decide to do here, fold.. call.. whatever, you have two BB it really doesn't matter anymore.

I suspect you have major leaks if you play a rock style earlier in the game, which will lead to you min cashing alot, but never really making it super deep that often.

 

[Alexandru24]

Clear call AK . With 2 blind you won't be able to get it to hu to doubleup. Call with anything that is not something like 27 , you won t get any better than AK there.

 

[No Brainer]

The only spot that I can think of is where folding is an option is if this was a satellite with top 6 winning tickets and 7th winning nothing. Maybe even top 5 as all the other stacks are fairly short and this is a 10c tournament.

By posting hands other hands where AK has lost in multiway pots I think you are missing the point that people are trying to make.

As you only have enough chips to pay blinds and antes for another 5 hands there is almost zero chance of you getting a better spot to get all of your chips in before you have nothing left.

 

[AviCKter]

The only spot that I can think of is where folding is an option is if this was a satellite with top 6 winning tickets and 7th winning nothing. Maybe even top 5 as all the other stacks are fairly short and this is a 10c tournament.

By posting hands other hands where AK has lost in multiway pots I think you are missing the point that people are trying to make.

As you only have enough chips to pay blinds and antes for another 5 hands there is almost zero chance of you getting a better spot to get all of your chips in before you have nothing left.

I do understand that. I acknowledged it in my earlier post. It was a call owing to lack of stack, but the other two are what bothers me and there are many more of the kind.

My concern is generic. I reviewed my hand history to find a number of occasions that my Ako went in a multi-way pot and lost. I understand variance, but getting crushed most of the time leads me to this question. That said I also understand that my sample size may not be optimum to be cynical about it, I haven't played hundreds of thousands of tournament. Yet if I do keep running the way that I'm, my biggest leak would be to play AKo or far worse, playing microstakes /freeroll.

Side Note: I can share all my AKo hands in case someone thinks it's impossible to get crushed that many number of times v/S winning(it's something like 47lose - 9win, including HUs situation, as far as I could see).

 

[No Brainer]

One thing I have caught on to recently is that AK loses a lot of its value when you see a flop. In a multiway pot I guess it loses even more value than heads up as you need to be a lot more careful when c betting into multiple opponents and there is more chance that someone has hit a piece of the flop.

Pre flop it is only ever dominated by Aces and Kings. Against all other hands you are around 46% or more. Once we see a flop however we are going to miss around 65% of the time which means we need to completely re evaluate the hand.

Regarding the hands you have posted, I think you played them fine which is what you should be aiming for, rather than worrying about the outcome of the hand.

 

[No Brainer]

Check out "The AK Special" on DragtheBar, it's a 2 part video series by HeyImDro which he looks over a lot of spots with AK, some in multiway and 3 bet pots.

 

[AviCKter]

Check out "The AK Special" on DragtheBar, it's a 2 part video series by HeyImDro which he looks over a lot of spots with AK, some in multiway and 3 bet pots.

Cool, thanks a lot!