Upgrading from HEM: HEM2 or PT4

JCgrind

JCgrind

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so i hear HEM is going to stop being supported in a few months time, which is shite cos it means i need to upgrade...

im a die hard HEM user. ive never even seen let alone used PT (3 or 4) or HEM2.

so is the difference between HEM2 and PT4 basically just interface? i srsly cbf downloading both and seeing which i like better.

ive heard lots of people say they loved HEM but hated HEM2- which seems weird to me, i can only really assume that those people have a bit of trouble with technology and feel a bit lost trying to learn something new but i dunno.

so, could i have some suggestions for which would be better for me from people whove tried both? im big on using HEM for analactical purposes ie session reviews, profit/loss facing certain actions etc (not just huds and results graphs lol)
 
JCgrind

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.... 122 views and no comment makes me sad
 
WEC

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I will comment for you :stupido2:

HEM has been the nuts the last few years, but in my opinion they are so busy trying to get every stupid new thing in their new product so they can charge people more money, that they have ruined the product.

If you visit the forum you see numerous unfixed problems and bugs even in the old product, and in silly straightforward places (ie 6 max Merge MTTs). Instead of taking time to support a fast growing US Room like Americas Cardroom, they are making the program bigger and full of new pain in the ass bugs.

I had zero experience with PokerTracker, but when I loaded it up for a free 60 day trial period (they have now reduced it to 30 days for PT4) on ACR, I had zero problems figuring it out, and it really was almost an extension of HEM.

If you have to pay money, you should research for yourself, but I have been telling people to pick PT4 over the new HEM Product
 
seqas

seqas

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not sure if im qualifired to reply here. i got both HM2 and pt3/4. I like pt4 alot more than HM2 and think its better.
 
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Big_Rudy

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.... 122 views and no comment makes me sad

Don't be sad......Be Happy....Bobby McFerrin where are you?:) (Damn am I old, or what :eek: ).

....ive heard lots of people say they loved HEM but hated HEM2- which seems weird to me, i can only really assume that those people have a bit of trouble with technology and feel a bit lost trying to learn something new but i dunno....

This is an entirely accurate assumption, at least as it relates to me:( :eek: . HM2 just really pissed me off. I was a long-time HM1 user and expected an upgrade when HM2 came-out. Instead, rather than building-on what they already had; it was like they trashed everything and completely started over. For me, HM2 didn't seem like an upgrade HM1; rather it seemed like a completely new and overly complex program that I really had no desire to learn. What drew me to HM1 was it's simplicity and intuitiveness. That's all gone (at least for me) with HM2.

I will comment for you :stupido2:

HEM has been the nuts the last few years, but in my opinion they are so busy trying to get every stupid new thing in their new product so they can charge people more money, that they have ruined the product.

If you visit the forum you see numerous unfixed problems and bugs even in the old product, and in silly straightforward places (ie 6 max Merge MTTs). Instead of taking time to support a fast growing US Room like Americas Cardroom, they are making the program bigger and full of new pain in the ass bugs.

I had zero experience with PokerTracker, but when I loaded it up for a free 60 day trial period (they have now reduced it to 30 days for PT4) on ACR, I had zero problems figuring it out, and it really was almost an extension of HEM.

If you have to pay money, you should research for yourself, but I have been telling people to pick PT4 over the new HEM Product

+1,000,000. This was exactly my experience with HM2, and also my exact experience with PT4.
 
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WiZZiM

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it wont be supported, but it will still work right?

If so, keep using it until it doesn't work any longer. HEM was a lot better than PT3 in my opinion, but HEM 2 i've heard nothing but terrible things.
 
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I really like HM2, but i never used HM1. So can't really say what is different.

I do find the filters and things to be a bit confusing in HM2 , so i do end up using the Leakbuster filters to pull hands from my database alot. Is a bit easier, and takes one click, instead of me fumbling around. And they have a lot of preset scenarios. But i guess if you are used to the HM1 method, it may be relatively the same.

can't hurt to do the trials for both HM2 and PT4.
 
RDB

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Hi, i don't really want to derail this thread but i would be happy to work with you guys on the current issues you have with HM2. I think both products have their positives and negatives and i think the fact that both exist is good for poker players as it keeps the market competitive and keeps pushing us both forward to improve the product.

The initial impression a lot of people have with products when upgrading is "Why did you change it, it was perfect before", facebook, Skype etc come to mind but literally hundreds of products have the same problem, nobody wants the hassle of having to learn the product all over again and who can blame them but often this is necessary to improve the product for everyone.

What i can say is once people do spend some time and get used to it a lot of people prefer the new interface. Some don't and if everyone's taste was the same the world would be a boring place but we do have 2 different themes and if there was enough feedback for additional themes its something we would seriously consider. Just like with anything you get back what you put in, if your willing to put in the extra time some of the extra features can make a big difference in your game just like putting time into learning theory and reviewing your hands can, we recognized the power and demand for these features and provided them for our customers but they are optional and many people's game center around a simple hud and nothing else, for those people they wont get much value from those other features but the option is there.

We have made significant progress on bugs in the last couple of releases and some of the feedback especially in the last 2 releases was very positive so i would encourage you to give it a try again if you haven't tried it in the last couple of months, if you email hm2support@holdemmanager.com we would be happy to give you a new trial if your previous one ran out.

That's not to say HM2 is bug free so we do realize there are bugs that are affecting people and were trying to prioritize those as best we can to ensure those bugs are fixed as quickly as possible, due to the nature of the business were also at the mercy of the sites when they make updates in many cases we have no notice so this takes up development time each week to continue to fix bugs introduced we have no control over.

So like i said i don't want to detract from this thread or try and sway opinion's as there is enough info out there for people to make up their own minds and both products have trials but if people do have issues that are taking away from playing poker/reviewing play, which should be the main focus then we will work extremely hard to fix this asap so please feel free to email us at hm2support@holdemmanager.com and link to this thread and well be happy to work with you to get a quick resolution
 
JCgrind

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the problem for me is that i only have 4GB of data per month (which i use solely for poker), and i usually use it all up with around 3-5days before the month rolls over, so by downloading both HEM2 and PT4, apart from the hassle, it will mean more days i cant spend playing poker which is costing me money. So ye id rather just see what the cash grinders think and just trust them than DL'ing both and seeing for myself :p.

big rudy, if theyve just completely remodelled HEM2 then i would suspect that a lot of the issue people are having is learning something new as was suggested. im pretty good with this stuff, and HEM was the absolute nuts so i think ill have to give HEM2 a chance even if it does take me a little getting used to. im sure ill end up loving it haha

thanks for the responses guys
 
JCgrind

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just had a thought... ive also purchased tableninja, since this is a HEM add-on im not sure whether its compatible with PT4? cos if its not them im obv sticking to HEM. anybody know?
 
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RamdeeBen

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I use table ninja along side PT3 and it's perfectly fine.

I'd of used HEM1..but seen as I can't no more..I carried on with PT3 and like I say, table ninja works perfectly fine along side it.
 
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Big_Rudy

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...big rudy, if theyve just completely remodelled HEM2 then i would suspect that a lot of the issue people are having is learning something new as was suggested. im pretty good with this stuff, and HEM was the absolute nuts so i think ill have to give HEM2 a chance even if it does take me a little getting used to. im sure ill end up loving it haha....

I suspect that that is exactly the issue. I don't do well with change to begin with, and just sweeping changes like they made to HM2 really made it difficult/impossible for me to embrace the program. Like I said, a big issue for me was ease of use of HM1. Everything just seemed to work logically, as it should, straight out of the box. With HM2 I didn't have that experience at all.

Honestly, I think I may have liked HM2 better had I not used HM1 first. It almost seemed a detriment to have had prior experience with the program and expect things to work a certain way. I hope it works for you if you decide to go that route. Like their rep said, there is not going to be one correct answer for everyone. For me PT4 was the solution, for you it may very well be HM2.
 
dj11

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My first was pt3. I remember the outrage from earlier PT users about the changes. Many changed to HEMx in protest, especially during the rocky beginnings of PT3.

I have used PT3 for years, not totally happy with it, they still haven't fixed some things they promised in the early days, and the results import is/was too unweildy.

No experience with HEM whatsoever, but I think in general, both companies are trying to make the be all/do all program and in both cases it is too much. Hell PT3 was probably too much. I really don't need to know what move player x makes at 3:30 pm on Thursdays when he is sitting MP with a pair of 8's.....

If you are brand new to trackers, I would suggest PT4 if only because it installed smooth like any non poker program would...A few questions, and it found most everything it needed. But I chose to not upgrade from 3-4. I didn't find the increased functionality to be worth even the upgrade deal they offered.

I won a tourney yesterday without any tracker, and my love of HORSE and STUD games precludes me from using the modern trackers. I am passed the stage of needing to analyze my hands and play and really the only thing I would really want a tracker to do these days is track my bankroll, and PT4 didn't do that the way I wanted, which was basically no input from me other than opening it up. It wants me to correct tourney cashes manually. What audacity!
 
JCgrind

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Nah I've been using one for the entire time I've been playing online almost. Also, not sure how you think you canever be past needing to analyze hands etc. I'm very comfortably winning and I'd never stop reviewing hands and opponents personally
 
JCgrind

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I suspect that that is exactly the issue. I don't do well with change to begin with, and just sweeping changes like they made to HM2 really made it difficult/impossible for me to embrace the program. Like I said, a big issue for me was ease of use of HM1. Everything just seemed to work logically, as it should, straight out of the box. With HM2 I didn't have that experience at all.

Honestly, I think I may have liked HM2 better had I not used HM1 first. It almost seemed a detriment to have had prior experience with the program and expect things to work a certain way. I hope it works for you if you decide to go that route. Like their rep said, there is not going to be one correct answer for everyone. For me PT4 was the solution, for you it may very well be HM2.

Funnily Enough I think you've convinced me to try hem2 first haha. Thanks for all your responses
 
dj11

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I needed hand analysis early on, needed it fairly badly. But after a while, we know when we are donking without analyzing it to death. What I do find usefull is the instant analysis, as in 'how am I playing today' and 'how is he playing today'?
 
dmorris68

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I've used all of them (PT3/4 and HM1/2). It's no secret around here that I prefer HM2, as I've stepped into the anti-HM2 threads a number of times. A lot of it has to do with some people abhorring change, they don't want to learn something new. As someone who's been in the software development field for over 20 years, this isn't an issue with me -- I seek out and enjoy change, especially for the better, and I think HM2 was a change for the better. Another issue is one of expectations -- most players don't understand just how complex and dynamic the online poker, and by extension the tracker business, is and how it's virtually impossible to keep it running bug-free. Combine this complexity with the literal millions of combinations of hardware/software that users have with a virtual endless potential for conflicts and issues that affect only subsets of users, but they're a very vocal subset.

That said, I've had numerous conversations with HM staff, from the forums to email to Skype, and all the way up to Roy himself, giving them grief over some of their development decisions and offering my own professional advice. Nothing is perfect, least of all HM2.

But I've used HM2 since it was in alpha, alongside HM1 at first, so maybe that gave me the advantage of getting used to the changes before most others did. Regardless, after a couple months with the alpha, I dropped HM1 and never looked back. Yes there have been bugs and hiccups along the way, but I also had them with HM1, PT3, and PT4. Look at the HM1 forums today -- you still see almost daily reports of issues of one kind or another. Same with PT3/4.

PT4 is a definite improvement over PT3, and if I were coming in cold with no history of either, I might have given it more thought. But I used it for months alongside HM2, really looking for a reason to jump ship, and nothing about it made me want to switch.

I'm quite happy with HM2, and if you look beyond the vocal complainers (which all of them have) you'll find thousands of people who are equally happy with it, warts and all aside. Anyone looking for a tracker that is bug-free and immune to the almost daily changes happening in the online poker market will spend the rest of their lives using no tracker whatsoever, because I can assure you such a tracker doesn't exist nor is it ever likely to.
 
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JCgrind

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I needed hand analysis early on, needed it fairly badly. But after a while, we know when we are donking without analyzing it to death. What I do find usefull is the instant analysis, as in 'how am I playing today' and 'how is he playing today'?

Yeah it's definitely for finding better ways to exploit others rather han patching up my own game.

I've used all of them (PT3/4 and HM1/2). It's no secret around here that I prefer HM2, as I've stepped into the anti-HM2 threads a number of times. A lot of it has to do with some people abhorring change, they don't want to learn something new. As someone who's been in the software development field for over 20 years, this isn't an issue with me -- I seek out and enjoy change, especially for the better, and I think HM2 was a change for the better. Another issue is one of expectations -- most players don't understand just how complex and dynamic the online poker, and by extension the tracker business, is and how it's virtually impossible to keep it running bug-free. Combine this complexity with the literal millions of combinations of hardware/software that users have with a virtual endless potential for conflicts and issues that affect only subsets of users, but they're a very vocal subset.

That said, I've had numerous conversations with HM staff, from the forums to email to Skype, and all the way up to Roy himself, giving them grief over some of their development decisions and offering my own professional advice. Nothing is perfect, least of all HM2.

But I've used HM2 since it was in alpha, alongside HM1 at first, so maybe that gave me the advantage of getting used to the changes before most others did. Regardless, after a couple months with the alpha, I dropped HM1 and never looked back. Yes there have been bugs and hiccups along the way, but I also had them with HM1, PT3, and PT4. Look at the HM1 forums today -- you still see almost daily reports of issues of one kind or another. Same with PT3/4.

PT4 is a definite improvement over PT3, and if I were coming in cold with no history of either, I might have given it more thought. But I used it for months alongside HM2, really looking for a reason to jump ship, and nothing about it made me want to switch.

I'm quite happy with HM2, and if you look beyond the vocal complainers (which all of them have) you'll find thousands of people who are equally happy with it, warts and all aside. Anyone looking for a tracker that is bug-free and immune to the almost daily changes happening in the online poker market will spend the rest of their lives using no tracker whatsoever, because I can assure you such a tracker doesn't exist nor is it ever likely to.

Thanks for the post man (I quite enjoy how whenever you respond to something there's paragraphs within an essay as opposed to "fold pre" lol).
So I can look forward to a lot of change then... I too am okay with that. I mean really, as long as it still has all the features of HEM 1, which I'm sure it does, I can't really lose I suppose.

Cheers!
 
Colbefc

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I know DM's point of view and he knows I dont agree but thats life.
I have been using HM1 for years and bought HM2 when it first came out, tried it and hated it. Everything I liked about HM1 was completely changed, so i am still using HM1, it might not be as "high-tech" or up to date as HM2 but it does what I want to do.
DM's point about some people abhorring change probably applies to me, everyone is different and I am staying with HM1.
Funnily enough I used to use Poker Office years ago and it was only the fact that you had to buy a license every year which stopped me usuing that.
 
JCgrind

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I will be using HEM1 until it dies. Long live HEM 1
 
Colbefc

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Jchoop I agree, as I say HM1 might not be up to date but I love it, it suits me and does everything I want it to, so long live HM1 :D
There is nothing to stop you downloading the HM2 trial, I would be interested to hear your views on it, and it wont cost you anything?
 
JCgrind

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Not on my comp ATM but I'd assume it's at least a few hundred mb which is at least 2 days of grinding I'd have to sacrifice. Plus I tried to download it a few months ago when it was still in beta and it just straight up wouldn't run so I'm a little reluctant lol. Fk it I might just get the trail tomorrow out of curiousity. If I do ill share my thoughts
 
fletchdad

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RDB;1962779 We have made significant progress on bugs in the last couple of releases and some of the feedback especially in the last 2 releases was very positive so i would encourage you to give it a try again if you haven't tried it in the last couple of months said:
hm2support@holdemmanager.com[/EMAIL] we would be happy to give you a new trial if your previous one ran out.

Is this offer for anyone? I did the trial, and used it not at all. I will not be wanting to use another trial for at least a month, maybe 2, due to some changes to my game that need my attention. But will this offer extend to me, and that time frame?
 
RDB

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Is this offer for anyone? I did the trial, and used it not at all. I will not be wanting to use another trial for at least a month, maybe 2, due to some changes to my game that need my attention. But will this offer extend to me, and that time frame?

Yes. If you need a trial extension a month or 2 from now please email a request for a trial extension, with a link to this thread and your forum name, to support@holdemmanager.com

Regards,

fozzy71
 
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